Goat Milk Soap Recipe Q + Labeling...

[jamigls]

Ok, I've been soaping for just over a year. I don't really have any problems with my recipe, it makes a nice bar that seems to last a while (but I don't have much to compare to for experience as I've only ever used the one recipe!). However, I wonder if there's either room for improvement in my recipe OR what I'm seeing is incorrect. I keep seeing experienced soapers listing goat milk as their first ingredient on labels and it makes me wonder if this is possible and... how?

I list my ingredients in quanity order, from the most to least (as it should be, correct?). I'd LOVE to be able to list Goat Milk as my #1 ingredient, but what would it do to the bar of soap? Or can I still make a bar that lasts with different butters/oils or quantities? Is it a good possibility that the labels I see are listing the order of ingredients differently?

Here's my base recipe (although darn it, I know I've altered some of these amounts slightly but don't have my notes next to me and it's been almost a year since I've had time to make soap!). I was overwhelmed with so many recipe options when starting and found this one in a book, it felt simple enough and I've stuck with it.

360g Olive Oil (40%)
270g Coconut Oil (30%)
254g Goat Milk (fresh/raw from my backyard!)
135g Shea Butter (15%)
135g Rice Bran Oil (15%)
127g Lye

 

[Maple_Street_Bath]

I keep seeing experienced soapers listing goat milk as their first ingredient on labels and it makes me wonder if this is possible and... how?

My first thought was that they are simply putting the ingredient that people "care" about first, and then everything after. It amuses me how many people ask me "what's your soap made of" and after I list the oils/fats/butters, then they're like "no I mean is it goat milk". My opinion is that people should care more about the oils than the label appeal of milk, but I guess that's why it's my opinion and not theirs. If they want goat milk, they should just ask that. [end of my little rant] Thinking a bit more about this, I think it is possible to have goat milk first as an ingredient depending on the soaper's lye concentration (assuming they're using full milk and not the split method) and the other percentages of oils.

For example: One of my soap recipes has seven oils/butters/fats in it, so they're at lower percentages, the highest being 28%. I have to go above a 33% lye concentration before an oil and not water is the first ingredient on the list. Flip the thinking a bit and if milk were the full liquid amount, then milk would be first on the list.
At 32% lye concentration for a 453g (1lb) batch the 28% oil is 127g, and the water/milk is 132g, making milk the first ingredient.
At 33% lye concentration for the same batch the liquid amount is 126g, which moves milk to the second ingredient.

Out of curiosity, I dropped the 28% oil down to 25% [moving the other 3% to another oil further down the list] to see how high the lye concentration had to be before the liquid wasn't the first ingredient:
25% oil is 113g and the lye concentration was 36% for 110g total liquid.

A soap recipe with low percentages over a variety of oils and soaping at respectable lye concentrations would still result in liquid being the first ingredient and a correct ingredient list.

 

[jamigls]

My first thought was that they are simply putting the ingredient that people "care" about first, and then everything after. It amuses me how many people ask me "what's your soap made of" and after I list the oils/fats/butters, then they're like "no I mean is it goat milk". My opinion is that people should care more about the oils than the label appeal of milk, but I guess that's why it's my opinion and not theirs. If they want goat milk, they should just ask that. [end of my little rant] Thinking a bit more about this, I think it is possible to have goat milk first as an ingredient depending on the soaper's lye concentration (assuming they're using full milk and not the split method) and the other percentages of oils.

For example: One of my soap recipes has seven oils/butters/fats in it, so they're at lower percentages, the highest being 28%. I have to go above a 33% lye concentration before an oil and not water is the first ingredient on the list. Flip the thinking a bit and if milk were the full liquid amount, then milk would be first on the list.
At 32% lye concentration for a 453g (1lb) batch the 28% oil is 127g, and the water/milk is 132g, making milk the first ingredient.
At 33% lye concentration for the same batch the liquid amount is 126g, which moves milk to the second ingredient.

Out of curiosity, I dropped the 28% oil down to 25% [moving the other 3% to another oil further down the list] to see how high the lye concentration had to be before the liquid wasn't the first ingredient:
25% oil is 113g and the lye concentration was 36% for 110g total liquid.

A soap recipe with low percentages over a variety of oils and soaping at respectable lye concentrations would still result in liquid being the first ingredient and a correct ingredient list.

So I had the same thought after posting and seeing another list of ingredients that was long. I thought well maybe there's just enough oils to still make the bulk amount of the soap "oil" but enough percentage of each to be just under the amount of milk used.

But then there's this list from a larger, local soap company that's pretty well known around our state that has me wondering if it's along the lines of your first thought. "Fresh Goat's Milk, Saponified Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Sustainable Palm Oil, Oats, and Honey. That's it!" Being local to me, they are a direct competitor with bigger pockets that is capable of buying supplies in bulk discounts and sells much larger quanitites, undercutting us small guys. If that's the order of their ingredients then "Awesome! How do I do it too?" because it's most certainly more appealing than listing oils before milk! lol

 

[Maple_Street_Bath]

But then there's this list from a larger, local soap company that's pretty well known around our state that has me wondering if it's along the lines of your first thought. "Fresh Goat's Milk, Saponified Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Sustainable Palm Oil, Oats, and Honey.

If that's the order of their ingredients then "Awesome! How do I do it too?"

This article probably sheds some light on how this soapmaker is doing their label. My thought is that they are following non-cosmetic "rules" for soap - which very simply means: The ingredient declaration is not required on a non-cosmetic soap. The cosmetic regulations concerning them do not apply. There are no restrictions on the ingredient naming or other details. [quoted from the article]

However, if they are marketing their soap like a cosmetic (moisturizing, brightening, refreshing, etc), then they should be following cosmetic guidelines for labels.

Personally, for me, I have customer reviews that comment on how "moisturizing" my soap is, so I follow cosmetic labeling to cover my rearend. (or at least follow cosmetic labeling to the best of knowledge)