Does Using an Oven Make CP Soap Cure Faster?
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It ensures gel and imho I think it speeds it up a little bit . I still like to let my soap cure at least a month.( not to say I don't use it before then :wink: ).
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lifeworksbylaura
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What to expect when i reduce water in CP???
soap calc recommends 38% water but my soaps seem a little wet. I am going to experiment with a couple of small 1# batches and reduce my water to 33%. What should I expect during soaping? What should I expect in final product after cure? Anything else?
soap calc recommends 38% water but my soaps seem a little wet. I am going to experiment with a couple of small 1# batches and reduce my water to 33%. What should I expect during soaping? What should I expect in final product after cure? Anything else?
AshleyR
Well-Known Member
Well, I used to do mostly CPOP (before I got my new molds), and the soap gelled and set up waaaaay faster.
I just started going back to wrapping my molds in blankets rather than putting them in the oven, and even though they have been gelling, they are still warm and sticky in the AM when I go to cut them, when usually the CPOP batches were more than ready to cut then. So yeah, the soap does set up faster if you do CPOP. Not sure if it is actually ready to use sooner (that's what I've heard). I always let my soaps cure min. 4 weeks.
I just started going back to wrapping my molds in blankets rather than putting them in the oven, and even though they have been gelling, they are still warm and sticky in the AM when I go to cut them, when usually the CPOP batches were more than ready to cut then. So yeah, the soap does set up faster if you do CPOP. Not sure if it is actually ready to use sooner (that's what I've heard). I always let my soaps cure min. 4 weeks.
it speeds the saponification, which can take from a few hours to a few days outside the oven, but it doesn't speed up the 4 week cure period.
Sticking your mold in the oven is basically HPing your soap right in the mold - but you tend to get a smoother product since you don't have to mash it around and transfer it to the mold AFTER saponification.
Am I making sense?
Sticking your mold in the oven is basically HPing your soap right in the mold - but you tend to get a smoother product since you don't have to mash it around and transfer it to the mold AFTER saponification.
Am I making sense?
madpiano
Well-Known Member
one thing I don't understand is, if I make HP soap with the oven process (mix soap until trace and then place pot in the oven at 170F for 30 mins) it's called HP soap and is apparently ready to use straight away, once it's hardened
If I mix the soap until trace, pour it into the mold and then put it into the oven at 170F for 30 mins it is CP and needs to cure for 4 weeks ???
I don't understand the difference ? It should both be the same ?
If I mix the soap until trace, pour it into the mold and then put it into the oven at 170F for 30 mins it is CP and needs to cure for 4 weeks ???
I don't understand the difference ? It should both be the same ?
I'm saying there should be no difference.
First off, if you gel in the oven some refer to that as CPHP which means cold pour/hot process.
The only difference I see between HP and CPHP (besides obvious) is that with regular HP you may lose more water during the cook which means you MAY have a harder soap to begin with. so less to evaporate during the cure period.
BUT the cure period FOR ANY SOAP also is a continuation of the chemistry of soaping. Trace amounts of lye are consumed, fatty acids do a bit of a dance - swapping places between being free oils and being soap (since soap is actually the salts of fatty acids - e.g., sodium tallowate), and the like. So 2 weeks is about how long it takes for a soap to "settle" and be it's best chemically. Then another 2 weeks for CP to continue to evaporate and harden.
am I making sense?
First off, if you gel in the oven some refer to that as CPHP which means cold pour/hot process.
The only difference I see between HP and CPHP (besides obvious) is that with regular HP you may lose more water during the cook which means you MAY have a harder soap to begin with. so less to evaporate during the cure period.
BUT the cure period FOR ANY SOAP also is a continuation of the chemistry of soaping. Trace amounts of lye are consumed, fatty acids do a bit of a dance - swapping places between being free oils and being soap (since soap is actually the salts of fatty acids - e.g., sodium tallowate), and the like. So 2 weeks is about how long it takes for a soap to "settle" and be it's best chemically. Then another 2 weeks for CP to continue to evaporate and harden.
am I making sense?
andreja said:
Well editing to a different type of process can change the outcome of an answer.
In CP you have not cooked any water out of the soap batter therefore it takes longer to cure.
In HP you cook out the water therefore the mashed potatoe effect and the glopping it into molds.
In CPOP You still have not cooked out any water and unless you are going to have it in the oven at 170 for more than a few hours it is only going to be forced gel which does not actually cook out water like in HP, it is only kickstarting the saponification process.
These are just my thoughts on it...... but in any case you should at least go 4 weeks before selling the soap. That is pretty much a constant post here.
Val
this is copy and pasted from another site but it sounds like it would work. what are your thoughts?
Recipe was for 50 ounces of oils, pretty classic recipe, very basic: Castor,
coconut, olive, palm, shea.
Set oven to just below 200*.
Prepare wooden mold by lining with freezer paper.
Melt oils together till just melted.
Mix lye and water.
Add lye solution to oils.
Stirred in a pinch of UM blue.
Brought to trace.
Took out 1 cup for a deeper UM blue to swirl.
Scented base.
Added colored portion.
Poured into lined mold.
Put in oven for 2 hours.
*At 30 to 40 minutes into it, the soap was in full gel to the corners - but
not goopy looking, like it was too hot. Just a nice controlled gel. No
mounding in the center.
*Continued to check at 15 to 20 minute intervals, but there was not
alteration to the look, no foaming at the edges...just soap taking in it's
surroundings, lol.
*At 2 hours, took out of the oven and set mold on table to cool...this takes
some time, since the wood is nice and warm.
*Freezer paper glided right off, no oils or oddities on bottom of soap.
*Cut and tested - wonderful lather, no drying. It is soap.
Observations:
*Temps in oven ranged from 190* to 200*, I have a gas oven.
*Should sit for a week to firm up, but it is almost as firm as DH HP, but
not as soft as CSDBHP or Cpot HP.
*UM was slightly paler, but still intact.
*Scent was not disturbed at all...still quite strong, even at a 1% usage
rate.
Cautions:
*Use only a sturdy wood mold made of *untreated* lumber.
*Be sure to have an oven thermometer on hand (in the oven) to know true oven
temps.
*Invest in a good pair of oven mitts. ; )
Notes(9/9/2001):
I just cut some of it a then cut a sliver off of one bar, and it is soap. No
tingle, smooth as CP. Lathered very well, no dryness to the back of my
hands.
I was sitting there thinking, the other day about it. Since I know what
temps are in soap when we HP the regular way(200* to 215* F), and since I
know what temps are in soap that is in CP gel (175* to 185* F), it made me
think about the oven thing as a controlled gel AND HP mixed. IF I could
sustain non-damaging temps for at least 2 hours, it could possibly cook
itself through, but without the exothermic action or stirring. At the very
least, it would be fully gelled soap, but still tingle. However, this was
not the case. What I did get was fully cooked soap, with a swirl and
scenting intact. I would not do this with anything other then the wooden
box mold I did it in.
Is the soap ready to sell tomorrow? No. I would still like to see it firmer
(it was very firm, but I know more water is going to come out and I hate
soap that drops it's drawers <g>). I would also like to still see it cure
for week or two for a milder soap.
What would be the premise for a soap made like this? Some CP soap with some
cure time removed.
Additional Notes (9/16/2001):
It is ready to be wrapped and sold. : ) Scent is still strong (My usage
rate of quality FOs is 1%). Color is slightly paler then had I just CPed it.
Oh, and I personally would never do this with a milk soap, but then I won't
HP milk soap either, but this is all personal preference. : )
Again:
*Make sure you use a WOOD mold that is of UNTREATED wood (and without a
finish)
*Make sure you KNOW your TRUE oven temps (invest in a modestly priced oven
thermometer)*Be sure to treat yourself to a good pair of oven mitts!!! ; )
Recipe was for 50 ounces of oils, pretty classic recipe, very basic: Castor,
coconut, olive, palm, shea.
Set oven to just below 200*.
Prepare wooden mold by lining with freezer paper.
Melt oils together till just melted.
Mix lye and water.
Add lye solution to oils.
Stirred in a pinch of UM blue.
Brought to trace.
Took out 1 cup for a deeper UM blue to swirl.
Scented base.
Added colored portion.
Poured into lined mold.
Put in oven for 2 hours.
*At 30 to 40 minutes into it, the soap was in full gel to the corners - but
not goopy looking, like it was too hot. Just a nice controlled gel. No
mounding in the center.
*Continued to check at 15 to 20 minute intervals, but there was not
alteration to the look, no foaming at the edges...just soap taking in it's
surroundings, lol.
*At 2 hours, took out of the oven and set mold on table to cool...this takes
some time, since the wood is nice and warm.
*Freezer paper glided right off, no oils or oddities on bottom of soap.
*Cut and tested - wonderful lather, no drying. It is soap.
Observations:
*Temps in oven ranged from 190* to 200*, I have a gas oven.
*Should sit for a week to firm up, but it is almost as firm as DH HP, but
not as soft as CSDBHP or Cpot HP.
*UM was slightly paler, but still intact.
*Scent was not disturbed at all...still quite strong, even at a 1% usage
rate.
Cautions:
*Use only a sturdy wood mold made of *untreated* lumber.
*Be sure to have an oven thermometer on hand (in the oven) to know true oven
temps.
*Invest in a good pair of oven mitts. ; )
Notes(9/9/2001):
I just cut some of it a then cut a sliver off of one bar, and it is soap. No
tingle, smooth as CP. Lathered very well, no dryness to the back of my
hands.
I was sitting there thinking, the other day about it. Since I know what
temps are in soap when we HP the regular way(200* to 215* F), and since I
know what temps are in soap that is in CP gel (175* to 185* F), it made me
think about the oven thing as a controlled gel AND HP mixed. IF I could
sustain non-damaging temps for at least 2 hours, it could possibly cook
itself through, but without the exothermic action or stirring. At the very
least, it would be fully gelled soap, but still tingle. However, this was
not the case. What I did get was fully cooked soap, with a swirl and
scenting intact. I would not do this with anything other then the wooden
box mold I did it in.
Is the soap ready to sell tomorrow? No. I would still like to see it firmer
(it was very firm, but I know more water is going to come out and I hate
soap that drops it's drawers <g>). I would also like to still see it cure
for week or two for a milder soap.
What would be the premise for a soap made like this? Some CP soap with some
cure time removed.
Additional Notes (9/16/2001):
It is ready to be wrapped and sold. : ) Scent is still strong (My usage
rate of quality FOs is 1%). Color is slightly paler then had I just CPed it.
Oh, and I personally would never do this with a milk soap, but then I won't
HP milk soap either, but this is all personal preference. : )
Again:
*Make sure you use a WOOD mold that is of UNTREATED wood (and without a
finish)
*Make sure you KNOW your TRUE oven temps (invest in a modestly priced oven
thermometer)*Be sure to treat yourself to a good pair of oven mitts!!! ; )
