Anyone know what could cause separation?

[christinak]

This is the first time it ever happened and I don't know why or if it's ok....looks like when baking and butter isn't mixed good enough and gets oily.

A couple things I did differently...

1. Lye was hotter than oils.

2. First time with a new fo. Still though, Ive used tons and never had it happen so I doubt it's that.

3. Added aloe to oils when I usually add at trace.

Do you think it's any of these things? Will it be ok after a while?

 

[CaliChan]

the only thing i can see that would cause it is the new FO or you may have experienced a false trace or something along those lines. My lye is usually warmer than my oils and i add things to the oils instead of at trace all the time so i dont see how that would be an issue. What kind of FO did you use?

 

[jcandleattic]

This is the first time it ever happened and I don't know why or if it's ok....looks like when baking and butter isn't mixed good enough and gets oily.

A couple things I did differently...

1. Lye was hotter than oils.

2. First time with a new fo. Still though, Ive used tons and never had it happen so I doubt it's that.

3. Added aloe to oils when I usually add at trace.

Do you think it's any of these things? Will it be ok after a while?

Lye hotter than oils wouldn't cause it, but oils hotter than lye could.

Did you stir it to full trace, or because the lye was hotter did you get a false trace? That could cause separation.
Overheating due to additives or the new FO could cause separation.
Every FO can react differently in CP and even though it may be skin safe does not necessarily mean that it is CP safe and could cause problems. Which FO was it?

I have no experience with aloe so I don't know, but I wouldn't think this would cause separation.
I will bet is probably one of the above factors.

If it is true separation, then no it will not be okay after a while - you will either have to throw everything in the crock and rebatch or throw it away.
If it is just free oils floating on top (Which this sounds like it is, and only a bit, not a whole bunch) - give it a bit (an extra day or two) and see if it absorbs back in. If that is the case, then it should be fine.

 

[christinak]

I'm really confused and upset...I have no clue what went wrong. I made a second batch and the same thing happened. It's a recipe I've used before and the fo's were both from Peak which I've never had a problem with before either. I'm at a total loss. The second batch was super hard and crumbled apart when I cut it....also something I've never had happen!

 

[judymoody]

Can you post your complete recipe and methods (soaping temps, type of mold, amount of fragrance, etc)?

On the first batch, I suspected the FO. Not sure on the second.

Other possibilities:

Have you calibrated your scale recently?

Was your lye clumpy or free flowing?

A while back, I had 2-3 failed batches in a row with lye pockets, oozing, etc. I came to the conclusion that it was lye I had ordered from a new supplier. Additionally, I keep my distilled water in the garage and it was winter so the water I was using was colder than usual. I brought the water inside and made sure that I stirred the lye really, really, well in subsequent batches and the problem didn't reoccur.

 

[christinak]

Sweet AlmondOil 20%
Castor Oil 10%
Palm Oil 25%
Coconut Oil 25%
Avocado Oil 10%
Olive Oil 10%

That's the recipe. I always split my water 50/50 with aloe. The first recipe I added the aloe to the oils and the second recipe I added it at trace (which is how I always do it). Both molds were silicone, the first was round cavities and the second a slab mold (both have been used before). None of my ingredients are new....no new suppliers. Peak fo's. I'm at the bottom of the jug for aloe and didn't shake it.

I usually melt my oils on the stove but last night I melted them in the microwave which left them much cooler than the lye when I used them. That's the only thing I did that I've never done before.

The lye was free flowing

The scale is working AOK. First batch was about .6 oz (37 oz oils) and the second batch was an oz. (60 oz oils) Also, nothing new there.

They are totally lye heavy....I never have a zap when unmolding. Maybe twice but it wasn't much of a thing. This stuff is saturated. Im just tossing it all

 

[christinak]

Hardness: 29 - 54 38
Cleansing12 - 22 17
Conditioning44 - 69 58
Bubbly14 - 46 26
Creamy16 - 48 30
Iodine41 - 70 61
INS136 - 165 150

 

[jcandleattic]

It sounds like they overheated and separated possibly due to the FO or false trace due to the lye being hotter than the oils and you weren't used to that.

Just because an FO is from the same supplier that you have used in the past, doesn't mean it will react the same in soap. As I pointed out, FO's can react differently in soap depending on what it is. Some are notorious over-heater's, while others soap beautifully.

Instead of throwing them out, have you thought of rebatching? they may not be pretty, but they will be functional (assuming the lye amount was correct in the first place)

 

[new12soap]

I'm sorry, I don't seem to be following... Two separate batches, both with different FO's, and of very different sizes, made slightly differently than each other and from your normal process, have BOTH separated, AND they are both lye heavy? But you are SURE your scale is fine?

Separation can be from under-mixing (false trace), which seems unlikey here even with cooler oils since most of your oils are very soft, or from overheating. Some FOs can cause it, whether it is from the same supplier or not, each different scent has its own formula and its own quirks. Are you using the oven to get gel? Other than separation does it seem to be overheating? Did you put the recipe through a lye calculator again to resize it? Are you SURE you measured everything correctly? you didn't grab fractionated coconut instead of sweet almond... didn't look at one recipe while measuring for another one... Did you perhaps put KOH in the lye calculator and use NaOH? ANY other possible factors involved?

I am sorry but this is just not making a lot of sense how everything is the same (but seems like several things are different) and your scale is fine but both soaps are separated and lye heavy If you can retrace every single step and find the problem, they can most likely be saved with rebatching, but you have to know what to fix.

 

[christinak]

I know how weird this sounds. I seriously have no idea what happened. I really didn't do anything different other than what I have said. I'm completely mystified. I'm throwing them out because I can't figure out what went wrong.

Thanks guys for trying to figure it out. I would not know what to say to someone either! lol

If it was one batch, maybe...but both? Extremely weird. I don't know how to calibrate my scale but I do know that everything I put on it weighs what it's supposed to. If I put things that have a weight on them on the scale, it all matches up.

The soap I made just the day before all came out beautifully. This is the first time I've ever had anything go wrong

 

[mel z]

When did you add what?

I know I'm new, but when you added could help.

I've made a few batches that seemed to separate upon adding any scent, I say that as I use EO's, when I added anything at all after what I thought was thin trace. It may not have been even trace given the mix of hard oils and soft.

Fortunately, they stunk too bad to care. One was neem oil, OMG never heating that up again. Note it had to be heated to add at trace, it was in those tiny EO bottles from ED. Second was was the same, added GM powder mixed with h20, and Germaben II E at light trace. (I know Germaben II E may not be the right preservative now. And I know some don't think preservative necessary in CP, but looking up ingredients for store purchased GM soap tells me I should add. Very sensitive skin.) Didn't know it would go on to full trace and threw it out. Tried again, and that went to full and very thick trace after quite a few minutes of blending.