HP questions...

Hi All...:wave:

While waiting for my Crock pot to come, I have a couple of questions regarding hp...

1) I have read that in order not to result in a hard/thick unmanagable soap, it is wise not to water discount. If you agree with this, then how much you consider norma water amount?

2) If I SF when soap is ready -gelling completed, are there a list of oils that are preferably used "raw" (meaning without "cooking") in order to avoid oil rancidity? or do you consider wise to add a small amount of Vit E at the ending stage as an oil antioxidant?

3) Is there a BEST temp to work the hot process? Meaning, is there a border line in temps when dealing with hp?

4) I have also read that overcooking is a no no... How can this be avoided when most sites I read cook at low? Cooking at low on a crock pot can result in a overcooked soap? Assuming the soaper indeed has realized the end stage of saponification...

5) Is it true that lavender buds do not brown with hp since the lye is dead?

6) Is there a minimum temp to handle hp ready soap in order to avoid difficulty when trying put into mold?

Sorry for the many questions... :Kitten Love:
Thank you...

Nehlena said:

Hi All...:wave:

While waiting for my Crock pot to come, I have a couple of questions regarding hp...

1) I have read that in order not to result in a hard/thick unmanagable soap, it is wise not to water discount. If you agree with this, then how much you consider normal water amount?

Click to expand...

Yes- I agree with that statement. I use a 28% lye concentration when I HP, which I consider to be a 'full-water amount'.

Nehlena said:

2) If I SF when soap is ready -gelling completed, are there a list of oils that are preferably used "raw" (meaning without "cooking") in order to avoid oil rancidity? or do you consider wise to add a small amount of Vit E at the ending stage as an oil antioxidant?

Click to expand...

Someone else will have to chime in on that (and I'm very interested to hear the answer!). I'm a CP girl who does a small handful of HP every now and then, but for what it's worth, I've never added any special oils after the cook to mine. I've always just taken a lye-discount up front and added all my oils together in my pot, but I'm thinking of super-fatting after the cook with a special oil in my next batch of HP (so I'm all ears along with you!).

Nehlena said:

3) Is there a BEST temp to work the hot process? Meaning, is there a border line in temps when dealing with hp?

Click to expand...

I don't know if there is a single 'best' temperature, but things should go fine if you keep it within a certain range. I mean, you want to make sure the batter doesn't get too hot or you'll risk having a volcano and/or burning the soap. For what it's worth, I normally cook mine in a stainless pot in my oven set to 170F/76C - 180F/82C and it works lovely for me, although I have also gone as high as 200F/93C before with no adverse issues.

Nehlena said:

4) I have also read that overcooking is a no no... How can this be avoided when most sites I read cook at low? Cooking at low on a crock pot can result in a overcooked soap?

Click to expand...

Maybe they mean overheated instead of overcooked, as is too hot (as opposed to too long)?

Nehlena said:

5) Is it true that lavender buds do not brown with hp since the lye is dead?

Click to expand...

Someone else will have to answer that since I've never used lavender buds in my HP.

IrishLass

Nehlena said:

Sorry for the many questions... :Kitten Love:
Thank you...

Click to expand...

Never apologize for asking questions.


IrishLass

Aye, use the standard soap calc water amount. You might need more of a cure, but it'll be easier to pour.

HP is when butters can be good - think of what works in lotions and so on, look at that. Don't forget that plain old co is good as an oil.

Even on low, the heat should go inwards. An overlooked soap is when it is finished cooking (no zap) but is cooked some more. Keep an eye on it and don't go for a timed cook, but use your eyes to see when it is done.

Not sure about the buds, to be fair

Nehlena said:

Hi All...:wave:

While waiting for my Crock pot to come, I have a couple of questions regarding hp...

1) I have read that in order not to result in a hard/thick unmanagable soap, it is wise not to water discount. If you agree with this, then how much you consider norma water amount?

2) If I SF when soap is ready -gelling completed, are there a list of oils that are preferably used "raw" (meaning without "cooking") in order to avoid oil rancidity? or do you consider wise to add a small amount of Vit E at the ending stage as an oil antioxidant?

3) Is there a BEST temp to work the hot process? Meaning, is there a border line in temps when dealing with hp?

4) I have also read that overcooking is a no no... How can this be avoided when most sites I read cook at low? Cooking at low on a crock pot can result in a overcooked soap? Assuming the soaper indeed has realized the end stage of saponification...

5) Is it true that lavender buds do not brown with hp since the lye is dead?

6) Is there a minimum temp to handle hp ready soap in order to avoid difficulty when trying put into mold?

Sorry for the many questions... :Kitten Love:
Thank you...

Click to expand...

1) I use soapcalc default 38% water to weight of oils.

2) I don't bother to add the superfat after the cook. You are adding such a miniscule amount of oil I honestly do not think it makes enough difference to be worth the hassle, but other people like to do it that way. My advice would be to stay away from oils that go rancid quickly and use more shelf-stable oils or butters.

3) You don't want your soap to scorch or burn or dry out or volcano, but as long as you stay under around 200F you should be fine. Higher temps will cook more quickly, lower temps will take a little more time.

4) Yes, cooking on low in a crockpot can result in an overcooked soap. You don't want dried hard bits or overcooked dried out soap that doesn't want to mold easily. It's still fine, just more rustic looking.

5) No, that is not true. Even after the lye has been "all used up" soap is still alkaline and lavender buds in any soap will look like rodent droppings.

6) No, there is no minimum temp. It will depend on your recipe, your method, etc. Cook it until the soap is done, add whatever you want to add, and get it in the mold.

Good luck

I have pretty much exclusively made hot process for the last 12 years. When I first started there was little information online about it, and the only information I read was that hot process was "dangerous" and should NEVER be trusted soap. I taught myself the ins and outs and it is still my favorite way to soap.

First, full water is a yes. If you water discount you will end up with a thick paste that is difficult to stir or mold. I use 36-38% on the soap calc depending on my recipe. But in the years of soaping the smallest addition of sodium lactate at 2% was the single most BIGGEST difference in the final soap for a more fluid molding. I now use it in every batch. Period.

As for adding superfat after the cook I can officially say that yes, it makes a difference. Such a large difference that my daughter didn't believe that two soaps were the same soap with different superfats...one she hated beyond belief, the other she loved and I now make it that way for her own personal use. I had to know for myself...so I made a huge 100 ounce oil batch (the largest my crock pot will hold). It was the same recipe for all the samples, and I divided up the batch in equal parts and added a different type of oil to each one. After cutting each type was marked and separated and labeled etc. ONLY I knew the true difference in the soap samples and I kept notes as we tested each type. I tested as a hand soap and as a shower soap. Myself, my husband and son and daughter and two friends gave me their opinions one by one. There were significant differences in 6 of the 8 samples.

Chefmom, that is interesting about the superfat. When you say that your daughter loved one and hated the other, were they both added after the cook, just using different oils? Were both soaps the same recipe? Or were you comparing a soap that was superfatted (or lye discounted) up front to one that was the same recipe superfatted after the cook?

The part about making one large batch then splitting it up for different oils is a great test, but which oils are generally better for adding afterward, what would you recommend?

new12soap said:

Chefmom, that is interesting about the superfat. When you say that your daughter loved one and hated the other, were they both added after the cook, just using different oils? Were both soaps the same recipe? Or were you comparing a soap that was superfatted (or lye discounted) up front to one that was the same recipe superfatted after the cook?

The part about making one large batch then splitting it up for different oils is a great test, but which oils are generally better for adding afterward, what would you recommend?

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Yes, I made one base recipe and cooked it, so the base recipe was the same formula with the same parameters...so the only difference was the superfat oil added after the cook. The recipe was given a 3% lye discount on the soap calc and I added enough superfat oil in the end to take each test up to 8%, so they were all the same %'s.

I looked up my notes and I used Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Olive oil, coconut oil, rice bran oil, sunflower oil, avocado oil, and almond oil.

The overall favorite was the cocoa butter...EXCEPT my daughter who is very fussy about her soaps...she hated the cocoa butter and favored the olive oil. Shea butter was "good, but nothing great, especially after using the cocoa butter one". The Olive oil was overall wonderful with a nice feel to my skin afterwards, the two that were very much the same were the coconut and almond oils. Nice but nothing special...The sunflower oil had a lovely bubble with a creamy feel, similar to the olive oil, but different at the same time. I personally loved the avocado oil, but it did come in second to the cocoa butter in my opinion.

My husband was up between the avocado oil and the olive oil for his favorite of the bunch.

The big loser of the bunch was clearly the rice bran oil. in fact, the soap was kinda a fail.... after 8 weeks of curing and only one use, this soap was soft....like a fresh made bar and I could even squeeze the bar like firm butter after only one use. it feels firm until you use it...ugh.

In the end I was surprised at the differences, but until you do a test for yourself you'll never really know. My base recipe was a very basic recipe with only olive, palm, coconut and castor. I wanted the superfats to be the only other oils to see which one would stand out. Obviously everyone would have their own opinions....its a test worth doing for anyone. http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

Thank you, Thank you all for your time... and thank you for your shared experience and knowledge!

Thank you for the detailed explanation, Chefmom

Has anyone tried babassu oil as SF oil ? (always meaning to add it after saponification in hp is over)...

Babassu is a lot like coconut oil or palm kernel oil. I personally haven't used it as a superfat, although I've used it in lotions. Based on ChefMom's experience, I'd guess it would not add a lot to the soap if used as a superfat.