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Old 08-09-2017, 10:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by penelopejane View Post
Pure olive oils soap (if you can buy real olive oil) makes a very hard soap but it needs a long cure to get there. It is very gentle and mild. Make some and try it at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months. Then try it at 18 and 24 months. I think you will amazed at the difference.

You do not need a high percentage of "hard oils" to make a great soap.
I did, but I might did something wrong with my soap. Because it is not that hard. And it has now cured for about 5 months. Maybe too short. But it is hard, but at the same time gets mushy very fast in contact with water. I did not do a water discount on that soap, and I think it did not gel. I'm quite sure it did not, because I used the whip attachment on my stand mixer to whip it for 3 hours (!) and then poured it in individual plastic molds.

It is a great soap, not harsh anymore (it was in the beginning), and very moisturizing. But not really hard.

I have heard 12 months curing time should be minimum for olive oil soaps, so it might get more water insoluble after a full cure?

I did experience some stages. First it was harsh and very, very water soluble. Plus no lather and slimy. Then harder, milder and less water soluble. More lather and less slime. Now it is quite hard when dry, but not when wet, but harder than it used to be. It lathers well. I get bubbles. But I don't remember if I added sugar. I get some slime if it has been mushy, like when using it several times without enough drying time in between. So I really would like to get it more water insoluble, plus a little more bubbles. Otherwise, olive is perfect as it is, it makes great soaps. I like my soap, and I do have many left, so I will see how it changes after 12 months cure.


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Old 08-09-2017, 11:05 AM   #22
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I think lanolin makes the best shaving soap. It goes in all my shaving soap. It's unique lathering ability makes it the perfect shaving ingredient. Adding olive oil as your primary oil will also make your bar more slippery. Seriously though try the lanolin!
Thank you, I will see if I can get some. And it better not stink dead sheep


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Old 08-09-2017, 12:13 PM   #23
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You need to try lotion bars for your hands! Like cocoa butter alone, but better.

A basic recipe would be 1/3 beeswax, 1/3 cocoa butter, 1/3 liquid oil. I use sweet almond for the liquid, but given your troubles finding oil you can use olive. Plus one or two percent scent. Melt it all and pour into something to cool. You can use immediately after it cools.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by soaperwoman View Post
I think lanolin makes the best shaving soap. It goes in all my shaving soap. It's unique lathering ability makes it the perfect shaving ingredient. Adding olive oil as your primary oil will also make your bar more slippery. Seriously though try the lanolin!
Soaperwoman, I agree completely! Of the soaps that I use that include lanolin in the formula, all are great for shaving my legs. The very best one is the only LS I have made that was supposed to be a shampoo. Not good as a shampoo, but it's the best leg shaving soap I have ever used! I never get cuts or nicks from my shaver when I use this soap! It's the lanolin (which is probably another reason it's a bad shampoo, but what did I know when I first made it.) I put it in a foaming bottle and squirt out a couple of dollops and Voilą!

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Originally Posted by narnia View Post
Hi everyone! I have a recipe that I would like to make more slippery, so that it can be used for shaving as well as full-body use.

6% Beeswax
3% Palm kernel oil flakes
7% Shea butter
20% Coconut oil
40% Olive oil
17% Castor oil
7% Sweet almond oil

What can I change or add to make more slippery? I have seen some recipes with bentonite clay. What does that do?

Thank you for your help in advance!
Narnia, in my limited experience, beeswax adds too much drag which is not at all conducive to slip and definitely not useful for shaving. Lanolin is what I would use instead. I don't use clays in soap, so no help there.

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Originally Posted by Rune View Post
I did, but I might did something wrong with my soap. Because it is not that hard. And it has now cured for about 5 months. Maybe too short. But it is hard, but at the same time gets mushy very fast in contact with water. I did not do a water discount on that soap, and I think it did not gel. I'm quite sure it did not, because I used the whip attachment on my stand mixer to whip it for 3 hours (!) and then poured it in individual plastic molds.

It is a great soap, not harsh anymore (it was in the beginning), and very moisturizing. But not really hard.

I have heard 12 months curing time should be minimum for olive oil soaps, so it might get more water insoluble after a full cure?

I did experience some stages. First it was harsh and very, very water soluble. Plus no lather and slimy. Then harder, milder and less water soluble. More lather and less slime. Now it is quite hard when dry, but not when wet, but harder than it used to be. It lathers well. I get bubbles. But I don't remember if I added sugar. I get some slime if it has been mushy, like when using it several times without enough drying time in between. So I really would like to get it more water insoluble, plus a little more bubbles. Otherwise, olive is perfect as it is, it makes great soaps. I like my soap, and I do have many left, so I will see how it changes after 12 months cure.
Rune, are you talking about all OO soap or high percentage OO? What you are describing certainly sounds typical of a 100% Olive Oil soap or a soap made with oils with a high Oleic acid content. I don't think you can make a Castile that is less water soluble without changing the formula, then it's not a 100% OO soap then, is it?
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:44 PM   #25
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Rune, are you talking about all OO soap or high percentage OO? What you are describing certainly sounds typical of a 100% Olive Oil soap or a soap made with oils with a high Oleic acid content. I don't think you can make a Castile that is less water soluble without changing the formula, then it's not a 100% OO soap then, is it?
It was 100% olive oil, yes. I don't think I used any water reduction either. And it was some superfat, don't remember how much. But something around 8-10%. And it was not gelled. I really like it, but I hate how it gets mushy in an instant. So I will never make a true Castile soap again, but harden it with something rock hard. I mean, make it less water soluble.

I have read that the hardness lye calculators use, is the hardness upon unmolding. Personally, I don't think that is any relevant at all, and makes no sense. Hardness after the cure, when using the soap, that is what matters. Water solubility should also be a factor in a lye calculator, but it is not.

I find Castile to be hard when touching it with dry hands and when using it the first time after it has dried up completely between washes. But try to wash your hands two times in a row, with no time in between. The first time will be with a hard soap, the next time with a too soft soap. The first time will be almost no lather, and you really have to work the bar. The next time, super bubbly and you barely need to touch the bar at all to get a lot of soap on your hands. Wash one more time, and it's slimy. Otherwise I like olive. I get a waterproof layer on the skin, sort of, if I wash away the lather in cold water. Maybe it is the glycerine? So that's what I do, use hot water to dissolve the soap and cold water to rinse it off. I find it more conditioning that way.

Maybe I did something wrong with the recipe or maybe olive oils are different and I used a not very appropriate one, or it could be adulterated (as I have read olive oils often are). Mine was a bottle that had a mix with refined olive and extra virgin, and it was some debris in it (not the right word). I mean some slurry at the bottom to show that it was extra virgin in it (and real extra virgin don't have that slurry). I guess they have faked it by making an olive porridge and dumped it in the bottle, or something. But I have read that olive oil soaps behave like that, gets mushy in no time, so the oils and recipe may have been perfectly fine.

So I will dump in something stearic acid containing oils in my next soap. I bought coconut oil to dump in as well. But I read just recently that coconut is just as bad as olive when it comes to water solubility. But I will use it anyway to reduce curing time, hopefully, and improve lather. Olive has to cure for forever to get lather instead of slime. So the next soap will be a Bastille, OO, CO and palm stearin. I just wish I found out how to make it, since I will be using honey, milk and oatmeal as well. I must melt the stearin and try to not scorch the milk in one way or another, and honey will heat everything up. I will use maximum water reduction and want gel at the same time. So, an impossible task for a newbie. I guess I have to live without gel. I have read that gelling makes a more durable soap, and so does water reduction. But with water reduction, it will not gel unless a higher heat is achieved. And then the milk will get all dark brown, at best. So I have no idea what to do. Maybe use other ingredients. But I really want an oatmeal, milk and honey soap that is both durable and conditioning at the same time.

But I wonder one thing. Will a hot process castile soap be different that a cold process? I wonder if the properties of the oils change to the better regarding hardness when high heat is applied?

The ancient type of Castile soaps that is still made, like Marseille soap, and said to be very durable, those are made lye heavy, cooked for days and washed out with saltwater, before molding, I have read. So either salt and/or heat must do something. But maybe regular hot process is not a long enough cooking time?

Oh no, this reply became as long as the Bible itself. Well, well.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:31 PM   #26
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I did, but I might did something wrong with my soap. Because it is not that hard. And it has now cured for about 5 months. Maybe too short. But it is hard, but at the same time gets mushy very fast in contact with water. I did not do a water discount on that soap, and I think it did not gel. I'm quite sure it did not, because I used the whip attachment on my stand mixer to whip it for 3 hours (!) and then poured it in individual plastic molds.

It is a great soap, not harsh anymore (it was in the beginning), and very moisturizing. But not really hard.
Is a stand mixer a stick blender or a table top mixmaster?
A stickblender is an effective way to mix soap batter.
Pure olive oil soap should not take 3 hours to reach trace.
If you use 31% lye concentration or higher you should reach trace in less than 5 minutes.
Take really good notes about each batch you make so one day when you find the perfect soap you can recreate it.
Pure OO soap can be mushy if not cured long enough or dried well between uses. I'd drop you SF way down. Not everyone likes it but when my dh's eczema breaks out he goes back to it exclusively every time with good results and I have other friends who will only use pure Castile soap. Problem is by the time you find you love 18 month old OO soap you won't have any left. I really think there is a difference between EVOO soap and OO soap.

Use the split method for milk soap and avoid over heating or browning the soap. 30-31% lye concentration will still allow you to gel your soap.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:18 PM   #27
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Rune, I believe my first Castile soap was made HP because that's the way I made soap in the beginning. Since then I have only used CP to make my 100% OO soaps. Of course I didn't make them at the same time, so I have no way of comparing in a side-by-side trial unless I were to make both batches more or less on the same day or within a few days of each other. My impressions of the Castiles I've made (plain HP, plain CP, dual lye CP, [40% lye concentration], vinegar in place of water Castile, is that the longer the cure, the more solid the soap. But can I expect super longevity of a high-0leic content soap? I don't think so. For me longevity of the Castile soap 'is what it is' and I can accept that. But how long does it last? Well, only my first Castile is old enough to evaluate for longevity so I am not there yet to actually say one way or the other.
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:59 PM   #28
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I used a stand mixer since I had no stickblender then. And it took three hours. I had the standard water that is already set in the lye calculator, 38% of oils I think. But now I know better, and water reduction it will be. And only calculated by lye concentration, not water as percentage of oils. I think that is way more accurate. Yes, I will take notes the next time. But superfat, hmm, yes, I guess it should be lower to make the bar harder. But I really want something very conditioning and not drying in any way. Not that I think castile would be so drying anyway.

I will make castile soap again. But I will then add something that makes it more durable, like clay, salt and wax, so it don't have to dry that much between uses. And then it's no longer a castile, but, well, that's okey for me. If I have like three bars available at the bathroom, then longevity would not be a problem. But I don't have room for a big soap rack, so I have to make the soap less soluble so that it can be used more frequently.

Yes, curing time. That is a test of patience, for sure. And it gets better, I have experienced that already in the short curing time I have had. I will save some to test it after 18 months. It might be perfectly fine then.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:20 PM   #29
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Just a quick point of information about the solubility of CO vs OO. They're nothing alike. That olive soap slime or gel that you're seeing is because it grabs water and holds onto it. Coconut soap, OTOH, is very soluble but it does not make that unpleasant gel. It washes away and makes bubbles.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:31 PM   #30
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Default Make soap slippery or silky

replace a portion of your water with Aloe water.


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