~*~ SMF November 2017 Challenge - 1920's Themed Soap! ~*~
~ November 2017 Challenge Photo Entry Thread~



Help Support Soapmaking Forum by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.
Soap Making Forum > The Soap Making & Craft Forum > Melt & Pour Forum > How to make 2 color soap as quickly as possible?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2017, 07:21 PM   #11
LilyJo
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 185
Liked 108 Times on 67 Posts
Likes Given: 149

Default

I agree with so much that has been said and I dont feel like being nice either!

We would all like to make money NOW but we all recognise the safety aspects of what we do and the potential to cause harm - yes its only soap but in order to make that we use chemicals and skin irritants. No matter what you might think fragrance oils are full of chemicals that people are allergic to and you need to have a better awareness of what you are doing whether that is CP, M&P or bath bombs. That means researching, testing and trialling for consistency, shelf life, deteriotaion, preervatives etc - all of these are the reasons why everyone is telling you to slow down.

I have always had my doubts about taking a year before you sell but having experienced many a weird batch of soap and bath bombs over the last two years I know you cannot rush it. You might think you have cracked it today but trust me, that recipe that seems perfect Day 1 is just as likely to do something weird on day 131 or 231 or whatever. If you have sold that product at the very least you have an unhappy customer or retailer but at worst case you have a threat of legal action.

I dont know where you are selling but all I can assume is that its not anywhere that is covered by EU regulations cos if you are you are breaking the law.

Assuming you are selling somewhere else - learn to make your products properly, Understand why things happen and what to do to overcome the problems. If you dont understand WHY things happen you cant understand what to do to prevent issues.

Oh and one more thing, create your own products - stop trying to copy someone elses hard work and creativity.


LilyJo is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 07:51 PM   #12
shunt2011
Administrator
SOAP_ADMIN.png
 
shunt2011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,000
Liked 4659 Times on 3105 Posts
Likes Given: 3909

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by petech View Post
@shunt2011

Thanks for the advice. Iíve watched a lot of youtube videos already, but perhaps I havenít seen the right ones. The ones that I have watched where there are 2 or more colors look very tedious to make. Hereís the thing about trying to make money from soap sales that is worth while, without a factory or being hyper efficient, it is hard to make any meaningful amount of sales to justify doing it full time. At $12 per hour wage, every minute is $0.20. So I spend 10 minutes on one bar of soap. That is $2 of just labor. Say I spend on average another $0.75 - $1 for materials of melt and pour soap and fragrance and coloring. That brings me to $3 approx, if Iím efficient. Say I sell to the store at $4 wholesale and they sell it at $8 retail. My net profit is now $1 if Iím lucky. Not counting the time it takes to drive to the store or to ship it out.

My opinion, and it maybe false, is that 90% or more of soap makers donít make any amount of money per annum that is meaningful. How I personally define meaningful is gross sales of $80k p.a. Where I expect half of that to be labor and cost of good sold. Which leaves $40k as profit. Which would equal to a low paying while collar job, depending on where one lives.

As far as not knowing a lot of stuff, everyone needs to start somewhere. Iíve been doing this since December last year. So in 4 months, Iíve managed to sell into 8 stores local to me. It is decent, but for sure not long term viable. Iíve made about $800 in sales so far. For sure not viable long term. 80k divided by 12 months is approx $6,700 per month. Iím no where near that.

Asking questions is to me doing research. It is one of many different methods to find answers. I have done google search, and I have watched youtube. You can see from my initial post, I obviously understand how to replicate the sample soap in question doing it the slow way. The slow way is for sure not economically viable. I spoke to a lady on the street the other day who thought $8 soap was too expensive and it should be $4. I told her, it is super difficult for handmade soap to be priced that low in a shop environment. Given that at $4 retail, the store takes $2, so there is only $2 left.

I hear you about spending a year researching before selling your first product. For sure that is one way to do it. Iíve read opinions from other very successful people in other industries say donít wait until it is perfect, get the minimum viable product first, launch it, and the refine as you go.

I also had a regional big box store express some initial interest in my soap. Their buyer said Iíd have to lower my retail price point to $5. Which means I would only get paid $2.50 wholesale. The talks have stalled because I wasnít sure I could make it and earn a profit at $2.50 wholesale. Iím one person and Iím too small and Iím not efficient enough (yet).

Nevertheless I appreciate your input!!!

@weaversPort

Definitely not pissed off. Thanks
I appreciate your input!
For sure I understood this type of 2 color soap looked like it was time consuming to make. Which adds labor cost. I was hoping to figure out a way to Ďoutsmartí the labor intensiveness of it. Call it problem solving. Hereís a type of soap I like. I have a problem with what I can reasonably charge a retail price for, because Iím human and not a machine in a factory. However the factory made products have set an expectations of what things cost, so how to do I figure out how to make it more efficiently as a human?

@earlene
About the swirl, Iíve looked into this and I have experimented with suspension melt and pour. I do like the results. I do have a problem with the ingredients that is typical. It has chemicals that enough consumers (not all) find problematic. So it is problematic to use suspension melt and pour. For example, when I pitch to shops, 1-2 out of 4 will ask is it all natural?

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!

@cmzaha
Thanks for the story and feedback, it is insightful and I definitely appreciate it.


TO ALL
In summary, I figured it was time consuming to make the soap that I referenced. But I liked it a lot. And if I could figure out how to make it fast, then I would make it, because it then makes economical sense to ďmeĒ. Problem solving is what humans do, right? In my house I have a 3d printer. It makes almost anything that I can design first on the computer, isnít that amazing? I have a paper cutter called the Silhouette Cameo, it makes beautiful boxes for my soaps. The precision in which it can cut is beyond my scissors skills. Isnít that amazing? I can talk to all of you via the internet, I have no idea who you are or where you live, isnít that amazing? Following that logic, wouldnít it be amazing if I or we could figure out how to make 2 color soaps fast? That would be a game changer!

Unfortunately, people like you are the reason so many fail. No integrity just looking to make a buck. Sorry, all you are doing is melting a base and pouring it into a mold. You want to put little or no effort into the art. You say you've talked to successful people who told you you don't need to put a lot of time and energy into this well, I suggest you go ask them for help because you just want information handed to you.

I'm going to leave this conversation at that.


__________________
www.sharishandcraftedsoap.com
Official Member of the Hoity-Toity Snickerdoodle League.
shunt2011 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:20 PM   #13
petech
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Liked 9 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

To everyone:

I’m using melt and pour soap. I’m not doing CP soap. I don’t need a year to know how to melt the soap in the microwave and re-pour it. I’ve tried making CP soap, and yes I can tell it can take a while to figure things out, that is why I don’t go that route. Also I’ve made the judgement that CP soap making is not as friendly for making soap out of molds.

toxikon:
For me it is mostly about the opportunity costs. My day job is that I’m photographer, I earn over $100,000 net, each year for the last several years. However, the particular photography market I’m in is cratering and that level of income I earn is unsustainable. I also have a college degree. So I can go into a white collar job and earn between $50-70K p.a. I’m having a go at making soap, because with the knowhow of making custom molds, I can create a large variety of custom soaps that no one else is making. That has the potential to make me more unique as a soap maker. If I was making the same soap as everyone else, I wouldn’t make soap. I would easily make more money sitting at a desk job. The ability to have sold into 8 stores so quickly is because I make soap they have never seen before. But I also understand the fact that I’m local to them makes my soap more desirable to them.

Let’s go through the math. “If” I can sell $1,000 of order per store, per annum. Then to reach my target of $80k gross p.a. I need to sell into 80 stores nation wide (USA). There are 50 states. 80/50 = 1.6 stores per state. 1.6 stores per state “seems” quite plausible. If I double that and sell into 3.2 stores per state, I can now earn a gross of $160,000 p.a., which seems way more attractive.

“If” I can personally sell an average of $1,000 per store is something that I don’t know if I can personally do it, but I understand that it can be done and that others do it. I talk to the owners of boutiques local to me. Some soaps they have in their store already do anywhere from $200-$500 per month. Which equals to several thousand dollars per year.

Arimara:
I hear you! Thanks! I don’t need you to be nice. I was looking around for a solution that wasn’t obvious to me. Making two color soaps the SLOW way, I already knew how to do that. Making it in an cost effective fast way, that I didn’t know how to do. Remember $8 retail is $4 wholesale. Labor at $12 per hour is $0.20 per minute, not counting material costs. With such low margins, doing things the slow way is unsustainable.

LillyJo:
I am just melting soap and re-pouring it. If people have allergies, they can read the ingredients list. I live in the USA not the EU.

As for creating my own products, I thought all soaps look generally the same no? For sure there is a few variety, but otherwise they are al the same. And I actually do create my own products. I design custom molds.

Shunt2011:
Why are you offended. I don’t want to make CP soap. With melt and pour, it is literally melt and pour it. I didn’t say a lot of time and energy isn’t needed. In fact I’ve spent a lot of time and energy. I work on this full time. What I did say is that quite a few very successful people suggest get the product to a minimum viable state, launch it, and then improve as you go.
petech is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:31 PM   #14
toxikon
Supporting Member
SOAP_SUPPORTER.png
 
toxikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,110
Liked 1399 Times on 609 Posts
Likes Given: 591

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by petech View Post
toxikon:
For me it is mostly about the opportunity costs. My day job is that I’m photographer, I earn over $100,000 net, each year for the last several years. However, the particular photography market I’m in is cratering and that level of income I earn is unsustainable. I also have a college degree. So I can go into a white collar job and earn between $50-70K p.a. I’m having a go at making soap, because with the knowhow of making custom molds, I can create a large variety of custom soaps that no one else is making. That has the potential to make me more unique as a soap maker. If I was making the same soap as everyone else, I wouldn’t make soap. I would easily make more money sitting at a desk job. The ability to have sold into 8 stores so quickly is because I make soap they have never seen before. But I also understand the fact that I’m local to them makes my soap more desirable to them.

Let’s go through the math. “If” I can sell $1,000 of order per store, per annum. Then to reach my target of $80k gross p.a. I need to sell into 80 stores nation wide (USA). There are 50 states. 80/50 = 1.6 stores per state. 1.6 stores per state “seems” quite plausible. If I double that and sell into 3.2 stores per state, I can now earn a gross of $160,000 p.a., which seems way more attractive.

“If” I can personally sell an average of $1,000 per store is something that I don’t know if I can personally do it, but I understand that it can be done and that others do it. I talk to the owners of boutiques local to me. Some soaps they have in their store already do anywhere from $200-$500 per month. Which equals to several thousand dollars per year.
I honestly think that with your skills, you could be making way more money pursuing a different venture. The simple fact is that people will not buy expensive soap, and it's very difficult to make artful, unique soap fast enough to turn a profit.

Have you thought about making and selling soap molds instead? Soapmakers happily pay a pretty penny for good quality, unique molds. Instead of pumping out batch after batch of soap, selling each bar for $5, you could make custom high-quality molds and sell for $20+ each. I'm not sure how the material costs compare, but I have a hunch that the plastics that go into mold-making are less expensive than gallons of oils and pricey fragrances/colourants.
toxikon is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:37 PM   #15
petech
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Liked 9 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Toxikon:
Thanks for suggesting the idea of selling soap molds. For sure that is an idea I could explore

Everyone:
Obviously I’ve offended quite a few of you. I not sure why. But I hear you. It wasn’t my intent to come on this forum and offend people. Typically what people do on forum is to ask questions. My goal is to figure “if” I can make an living wage off making soap. What I understand from being a relatively high earning photographer is that being efficient super important. The less time I spend on making something the more money I get to keep. Labor is a huge cost. I assume most soap makers don’t make a living wage of their work. That’s fine. I thought I had enough of a unique product offering that I would exploring seeing if I can make a living wage. If I thought for sure I could only make pocket money, I go do something else with my time. There are literally thousands and upon thousands of other people already making soap. The world does not need me making soap if I’m making the same stuff as everyone else.
petech is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:48 PM   #16
Susie
Supporting Member
SOAP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,853
Liked 7906 Times on 4357 Posts
Likes Given: 16635

Default

I appreciate your candor. I also appreciate the financial situation you are in. I get the fact that you are "only" making MP soap. You still do not have the experience necessary to turn out a good enough product to compete with everyone else that makes soap.

The biggest problem people have with you selling soap is not actually about you selling soap. It is far more about how you ask for advice. I realize that you see no problem with how you asked. However, let me present it from their side of the situation. Someone who has only been on the forum, and making any sort of soap, a month demands that you tell them how you make the two color soap (that took you 3-4 years to get right) so that they can go into business competing with you. Not cool. Not cool at all. (I do not sell, and I do not make MP, so this does not pertain to me.)

The suggestion to make molds is a valid one. You have no idea how much molds and cutters cost. Just go take a tour of Etsy if you really want to see where the money is. There are thousands of soapmakers. There are very few making molds and cutters. You could be making money (not $100k/yr!) within a month. AND you have all these lovely people in this forum that could happily help you figure out what is needed.
Susie is online now  
6
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:50 PM   #17
WeaversPort
Voyages of Curiosity
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 533
Liked 612 Times on 292 Posts
Likes Given: 2856

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by petech View Post
Toxikon:
Thanks for suggesting the idea of selling soap molds. For sure that is an idea I could explore

Everyone:
Obviously I’ve offended quite a few of you. I not sure why. But I hear you. It wasn’t my intent to come on this forum and offend people. Typically what people do on forum is to ask questions. My goal is to figure “if” I can make an living wage off making soap. What I understand from being a relatively high earning photographer is that being efficient super important. The less time I spend on making something the more money I get to keep. Labor is a huge cost. I assume most soap makers don’t make a living wage of their work. That’s fine. I thought I had enough of a unique product offering that I would exploring seeing if I can make a living wage. If I thought for sure I could only make pocket money, I go do something else with my time. There are literally thousands and upon thousands of other people already making soap. The world does not need me making soap if I’m making the same stuff as everyone else.
I think I can help a little with this. I think we have what my industry calls a failure to "read the room".

First, yes.. With your particular skills and setup, making unique molds might be a better "moneymaker". I love soap molds.

Second, yes. The bath, body and soap market is saturated. Unless you can differentiate yourself, you're going to be one of the gang.

Third, people here are people who love soaping. Many of them are in it for the love of soapmaking, some do it as a business. People know that contributing to the forum makes this place special and unique for beginners AND advanced soapmakers. While people appreciate that we all need to "make a buck" to survive, imagine going to a forum of French chefs and without ever contributing to the knowledge; the shared passion; or science of the conversation; asking them if they can help you figure out how to mass produce French food - because you already have six customers lined up and your day job isn't sustainable.

You're going to get some people furious with the impression that you're not aware of potential health and safety issues. Others upset because if feels like you're taking their artistry and devaluing it. A bunch will see you as a threat, because you're asking them to give their hard work and experience away.. And likely the casual hobby cooks in the metaphor will see you as a taker; here to learn the art to make a quick buck, without taking the effort to see the soul of the craft.

If you have experience with United States manufacturing, what you just asked the business person is: how do I become China?

The only thing that most people heard is: How can I cheapen what you love to do? And ultimately do it better.

While there is nothing wrong with what you're asking, I believe it is getting lost.
__________________
Please forgive my typos. My brain tends to.. Oh Shiny!!

Welcome to Weaver's Port

Last edited by WeaversPort; 03-27-2017 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Trying to tone back my "harsh"
WeaversPort is offline  
10
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:09 PM   #18
Arimara
Supporting Member
SOAP_SUPPORTER.png
 
Arimara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,098
Liked 1239 Times on 813 Posts
Likes Given: 4078

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeaversPort View Post
I think I can help a little with this. I think we have what my industry calls a failure to "read the room".

First, yes.. With your particular skills and setup, making unique molds might be a better "moneymaker".

Second, yes. The bath, body and soap market is saturated. Unless you can differentiate yourself, you're going to be one of the gang.

Third, people here are people who love soaping. Many of them are in it for the love of soapmaking, some do it as a business. People know that contributing to the forum makes this place special and unique for beginners AND advanced soapmakers. While people appreciate that we all need to "make a buck" to survive, imagine going to a forum of French chefs and without ever contributing to the knowledge; the shared passion; or science of the conversation; asking them if they can help you figure out how to mass produce French food - because you already have six customers lined up and your day job isn't sustainable.

You're going to get some people furious that you're not aware of potential health and safety issues. Others upset because if feels like you're taking their artistry and devaluing it. A bunch will see you as a threat, because you're asking them to give their hard work and experience away.. And likely the casual hobby cooks in the metaphor will see you as a taker; here to learn the art to make a quick buck, without taking the effort to see the soul of the craft.

If you have experience with United States manufacturing, like I do, what you just asked is: how do I become China?

Nobody comes out liking the exchange.. Perhaps not even yourself.

The only thing that most people heard is: how can I cheapen what you love to do? And ultimately do it better.
Love the French chef analogy. Many of them love what they do and I have nothing but respect for those individuals. They make their products with love and care, and all I wish I could say is "shut up and take my money!" If you're going to sell your hard work, it better be something you are passionate about.
Arimara is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:12 PM   #19
cherrycoke216
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 536
Liked 429 Times on 242 Posts

Default How to make 2 color soap as quickly as possible?

You sound like a polite and straightforward person. And you do realize the economic aspect and all. And you have take everyone's opinion well. I mean, they don't sound harsh, just being practical and honest, but there will be new member hearing this and start a internet war/troll or something.

The real fast way is melt a one color MP and after unmold it, you paint it with a brush using rubbing alcohol and mica. This might be a little faster than using a syringe kind of thing to inject white outline and then the blue base. Because using syringe, you have to be fast enough that soap is not harden inside syringe but slow enough that make the outline clean and clear. But take my words with a grain of salt. I'm a mostly cold process soap maker and occasionally use MP as a medium in decorations.

I think you are polite and persuasive in person, plus you have unique product to sell it to 8 stores. On the internet, people can't hear your tones so we can only guess. And toxikon is right, I will be the weirdo to pay big bucks for unique and one of a kind mod when some love the drawer as a mold. But to each his own.
cherrycoke216 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:24 PM   #20
petech
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Liked 9 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

@susie and @weaversport

I hear you both, you give valid critiques of me. Yes I agree I failed to ‘read the room’ properly.

For sure if I could do it over again, I’d find a different way to ask my question.

@arimara
I hear you, thanks!

@cherrycoke216
Thanks for the tips about painting it with mica, that idea hadn’t occurred to me to try. And thanks for your other kinds words, I appreciate it.

Everyone:
I like making soap as far as it is a challenge to me, as I’ve never made soap until recently, everything is new to me. Figuring things out is fun to me. I’ve learned to use 3d software, I’ve learned to use a 3d printer, I’ve learned about MP soap, I’ve learned about using a paper cutting machine, I’ve learned to design packaging on the computer and then turn it into real paper box. I’ve learned how to door knock on stores. I’ve learned what stores like and don’t like. There is a ton of stuff that I know now that I didn’t know a few months ago.

As far as CP soap goes. There are tons of beautiful soaps out there. I’ve seen them on pinterest and youtube and in stores. I don’t think I can add value there, because I have no obvious ideas on how to make CP soaps that isn’t the same as everyone else. MP soap is very kind to custom molds, that is where I think I can add value by being unique.

My apologies to those of you who felt I was rude in how I came on this forum and asked my question. Not my intent to make you feel uncomfortable. People who know me in real life say I don’t filter what I say before I open my mouth.


petech is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
soap dissolving too quickly after cure bneylan Beginners Soap Making Forum 4 02-16-2017 12:36 PM
Soap melting too quickly FifthCap Soap Making Recipes & Tutorials 5 05-20-2014 10:07 PM
Soap tracing too quickly? sndrcr3 Lye-Based Soap Forum 17 08-24-2011 08:19 PM
Help! My soap dissolves quickly Sauboon Lye-Based Soap Forum 6 09-18-2010 11:48 AM
Quickly Cleaning your Bucket! (soap pot) timbudtwo Lye-Based Soap Forum 5 05-20-2010 12:27 AM



Newest Threads