Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

liquidsoaplady said:

But boy, a lot of work, I don't go through nearly as much work to make my soaps..........

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Hello Liquidsoaplady. Being that this thread is geared toward each of us sharing our GLS experiments and successes and failures with each other, would you care to share more about your process with us?


IrishLass

ngian said:

But I feel like that it is not making as fast and as much bubbles as a CP bar would do with almost the same % of oils.

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Well after a week's (and more) "curing" I feel that the liquid soap is overall better in the silky feeling that it gives to the hands, and lather is being created somehow faster.

I decided to dilute the same diluted paste more (x1,87 paste's weight) so as to use it in a foam pump bottle and here is how it works:


1 pump


2 pumps - excess lather falls down in the sink...

I have also inserted a few drops of lavender EO which has made the dilution a bit fuzzy along with a very small white cloudy part but I guess it is normal.

The next experiment will be with diluting to more honey like liquid soap (x 0.75 paste's weight) along with little portion of sodium citrate (maybe 3%).

Nikos

Looks just like my foamer soap. I think it is perfect!

Hi, I am new here and it is my first time posting a question.

Irishlass mentioned that at the Dish Forum, there is a looooooong glycerin liquid soap thread. Could someone tell me where the thread is please? I can't find the Dish Forum.

Here you go:

http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/i...ethod-liquid-soap/?hl=+liquid++glycerin++soap

If you have trouble accessing their site(I did for a LONG time), all the pertinent info to make wonderful liquid soap is in this forum.

Thanks, Susie. I have now registered at the Dish Forum. I must say that this thread is so informative that any serious LS soaper should read it at least twice. Thank you guys for so willing to share your valuable experience and knowledge.

Hey Guys... I am hoping to get some direction on my LS making adventures. I have attempted (3) separate batches and all have failed in some way. When I saw the glycerin method and how everyone said it was fool proof I had to give it a try.

ATTEMPT #1. Approx. 6 mos ago I attempted making a LS batch in the crockpot with all water. The start of it followed the directions to the sticky mashed potato consistency and the video that I watched stated they let theirs cook on a low temp in the oven for 10+ hours while occasionally stirring. I did this and could never get it to the translucent paste stage. It ended up in a bucket in my garage...

ATTEMPT #2. Last week I attempted a second try which was also ALL water using fairly similar amounts of OO/CO/Castor Oil with IrishLass's recipe. I started it while at our shop in the crock pot and allowed it to cook while I worked and occasionally stirred. This was based off a Soapqueen video and recipe. I ended up having to take my crockpot home and continue the cooking process because It constantly stayed in the sticky mashed potato stage. Later that night before going to bed I turned it off and while it looked dark amber in color and thicker I was still unsure. The next morning I looked and to my surprise Thick amber paste. Zap test was perfect. The next day I diluted (way too much as per the soapqueen recipe) and allowed to cool adn sit for several days until I got back to the shop. When I checked on it today it was cloudy and upon stirring it... it was as if there was a sediment on the bottom of the pan that made it opaque white again. I decided to go on and thicken and fragrance just to see what I got and it was just plain awful.

So that's when I stumbled upon the Glycerin method...
ATTEMPT #3. Later today I took my supplies home and attempted the Glycerin method. Here are my exact steps...

Measured: 24oz. TOTAL OILS
15.6 oz. Olive Oil 65%
6 oz. Coconut Oil 25%
2.4 Castor Oil 10%

Measured:
15.14 oz Glycerin
5.05 oz. KOH

1. In my soap pot I melted my oils on low temperature to get them all to a liquid state and clear
2. in my newly bought KOH/Glycerin pot I melted on medium High heat until white KOH was melted.
3. I poured my KOH/Glycerin mixture into my soap pot and stick blended for more 8-12 minutes. I started to get the TINY little bubbles floating in the air... BUT I never got any translucent stages. It basically stayed like amber thick pudding. It reminded me much of like when you make peanut brittle and it's a thick sugary liquid. I finally tried to use a whisk just to see if I got different results and nada.
4. I then remembered that IrishLass said to put a lid on it and forget it. It's only been several hours but I just feel like it's completely wrong. I keep reading the posts and see where everyone says theirs turned translucent and had a beer head on it. My just looks like thick taffy peanut butter...

I'm really getting frustrated because I truly want to make liquid soap. I'm not sure if there is anything that I'm using that might be causing the problem...

My KOH came from Essential Depot Potassium Hydroxide caustic Potash KOH Flakes
My Glycerin is all vegetable
Stainless steel pots and utensils
Stainless Steel stick blender
Oils: Olive/Rice Bran blend; 76 Coconut Oil; Castor oil...

Any help, directions would be greatly appreciated. I've been a long time CP soap maker and really want to learn what I am doing wrong.

Have you tried http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852 and http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114?

The first thing I see is that you are using an olive/rice bran blend rather than pure olive oil. RBO has different SAP values than olive oil. Any time you change oils, you need to re-run the recipe through a lye calculator. The second thing I see is the dark color, which tells me that the glycerin got too hot. I don't know what else could have gone wrong, but that is where I would start.

Which lye calculator are you using for those batches?

Also, please do not go get Catherine Failor's book on liquid soapmaking right now...you do not need any more complications. Once you have a successful batch or two, you can go read that so you can have some alternate recipes to tweak yourself. But be sure to run those through a lye calculator yourself, using a 0-3% superfat to avoid using borax for neutralization.

Susie said:

The first thing I see is that you are using an olive/rice bran blend rather than pure olive oil. RBO has different SAP values than olive oil. Any time you change oils, you need to re-run the recipe through a lye calculator. The second thing I see is the dark color, which tells me that the glycerin got too hot. I don't know what else could have gone wrong, but that is where I would start.

Which lye calculator are you using for those batches?

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Hey Susie... Actually I should have been more specific. I ran my numbers through the SummerBee SC as everyone suggested for liquid soap. And I actually did put in my values for a 50:50 olive oil/rice bran mix. So where I stated in my post that I put in 15.6 of olive oil I actually put in the calculator 7.8 olive oil and 7.8 rice bran. And that's where my KOH/Glycerin numbers were derived from.

As far as getting too hot I placed my glycerin and KOH in the pot at room temperature and continually stirred on medium heat. I did heat it a bit past complete dissolution of the KOH because I was unsure if those tiny small bubbles you get after removing from heat at the bottom of the pan meant it wasn't fully dissolved.

Susie said:

Also, please do not go get Catherine Failor's book on liquid soapmaking right now...you do not need any more complications. Once you have a successful batch or two, you can go read that so you can have some alternate recipes to tweak yourself. But be sure to run those through a lye calculator yourself, using a 0-3% superfat to avoid using borax for neutralization.

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And I did the 3% superfat in summerbee. I'm just so bumfuzzled with the LS... :sad:

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

Have you tried http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852 and http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114?

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Eff Gent...

Thanks... Yes the second link is where I got the glycerin recipe from and was excited to try... I followed IrishLass's recipe and technique to the T...

glassfishy said:

Hey Susie... Actually I should have been more specific. I ran my numbers through the SummerBee SC as everyone suggested for liquid soap. And I actually did put in my values for a 50:50 olive oil/rice bran mix. So where I stated in my post that I put in 15.6 of olive oil I actually put in the calculator 7.8 olive oil and 7.8 rice bran. And that's where my KOH/Glycerin numbers were derived from.

As far as getting too hot I placed my glycerin and KOH in the pot at room temperature and continually stirred on medium heat. I did heat it a bit past complete dissolution of the KOH because I was unsure if those tiny small bubbles you get after removing from heat at the bottom of the pan meant it wasn't fully dissolved.



And I did the 3% superfat in summerbee. I'm just so bumfuzzled with the LS... :sad:

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OK... I'm glutton for punishment so I'm going to attempt yet again. I'm going to change a few things to see if it was something that I did...

I'm going to use straight olive oil in place of the blend. I am rerunning it through the Summerbee soap calc... 15.6oz. Olive oil; 6 oz. Coconut oil; 2.4 castor oil. I get 15.28 water and 5.09 KOH with a 3% superfat. So just to clarify.. I am going to use 15.28 oz of glycerin in place of the water... I read several Deeannas post about her trials of mixing water and Glycerin to do strictly as a cold process with no heat but as of right now I'm sticking with this tried and true recipe of heating the glycerin with KOH... I'm also going to heat it just to the point of no more KOH to make sure I didn't get the glycerin/KOH too hot. Any other thoughts/changes?

I'm sorry I'm bugging you all. Just want to get at least one batch... So I started my 4th batch with the above measurements. All was going well. One problem is at my shop we only use an electric plate as on my CP soap I'm not worried about bring my items to a boil. So on my griddle I was able to dissolve all of my KOH without any problem. So to keep from overheating I stopped at the point of all the flakes being dissolved.

I started out adding to my crockpot this time off the heat as before and all seemed to go well. I saw translucency and it was changing colors. I was using my favorite stick blender (cheapy plastic... I know against advice)... And it melted it. So I quickly went back to my metal whisk and it was still OK. I pulled out our metal Kitchen Aid stick blender that I had used last night and it's just an odd blender that I don't like. It's like it spins so fast in the area you're in but it doesn't mix the entire batch up so I stopped using it and went back to whisking. At that point the entire mixture was opaque, back at the same consistency as last nights. Thin Peanut butter. I didn't get any floating bubbles this time. It's a lighter color than last nights... More of a tan color.

Could it be this stupid stick blender causing me my issues? I should have just stuck with the whisk as suggested but when I saw the video that IrishLass had posted the lady there used what looks like a plastic SB.

Hi Glassfishy. Don't be discouraged! I have to go run an errand right now, but I'll be back within an hour or so to help you out!


IrishLass

I'm back! Glassfishy- good news.....methinks you may be overthinking things a bit, and possibly making much ado about nothing.....

glassfishy said:

ATTEMPT #3. Later today I took my supplies home and attempted the Glycerin method. Here are my exact steps...

Measured: 24oz. TOTAL OILS
7.8 oz. Olive Oil 32.5%
7.8 oz Rice Bran Oil 32.5%
6 oz. Coconut Oil 25%
2.4 Castor Oil 10%

Measured:
15.14 oz Glycerin
5.05 oz. KOH

1. In my soap pot I melted my oils on low temperature to get them all to a liquid state and clear

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So far, so good...

glassfishy said:

2. in my newly bought KOH/Glycerin pot I melted on medium High heat until white KOH was melted.

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So far, so good....

glassfishy said:

3. I poured my KOH/Glycerin mixture into my soap pot and stick blended for more 8-12 minutes. I started to get the TINY little bubbles floating in the air...

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Excellent! Those tiny bubbles are a sign that all is going to plan and that you have saponification going on. Now, you could have actually stopped blending and fussing with it right then and there (I always stop at that point myself), covered it, and left it alone off the heat to come to the paste stage all in it's own time.

glassfishy said:

BUT I never got any translucent stages.

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That's okay- believe it or not, translucency is not an important factor.

glassfishy said:

It basically stayed like amber thick pudding. It reminded me much of like when you make peanut brittle and it's a thick sugary liquid.

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Still nothing to worry about- that's actually completely okay.

glassfishy said:

I finally tried to use a whisk just to see if I got different results and nada.

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From my experience, that's completely normal and to be expected at that point. Still nothing to worry about. I'd have just stuck the lid back on and walked away for a few hours.

glassfishy said:

4. I then remembered that IrishLass said to put a lid on it and forget it.

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Yes!!!

glassfishy said:

It's only been several hours but I just feel like it's completely wrong. I keep reading the posts and see where everyone says theirs turned translucent and had a beer head on it. My just looks like thick taffy peanut butter...

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Don't go by looks or color ...... instead, go only by feel (it should feel like thick, sticky, taffy or of a soft caramel-like consistency), then go by zap once it has reached that texture, in spite of whether it's translucent or opaque or dark or light or not, and then see if it will lather under running water. The looks/color/translucency, or whether or not you have a head of bubbles on top actually do not matter. What matters is the texture and whether or not it's zappy, and if it lathers. Your description of "thick taffy peanut butter" sounds to me like things are right on track where they should be and that you actually have nothing to worry about. I myself have gotten an opaque/peanut butter taffy looking paste once, but it diluted clear as a bell and made lovely liquid soap.

I hope you still have this paste and did not toss it out? (oh please, oh please, I hope Glassfishy did not throw it out!) If you still have it, pinch off a small blob of it and zap test it and also try and see if it lathers under running water. If there's no zap and it lathers, go ahead and dilute that baby. It's ready!
,

I'm sorry I'm bugging you all.

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No need for apologies at all- it's all good, and we are all glad to be of help.

glassfishy said:

So I started my 4th batch........went back to whisking.......At that point the entire mixture was opaque, back at the same consistency as last nights. Thin Peanut butter. I didn't get any floating bubbles this time. It's a lighter color than last nights... More of a tan color.

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Again- color/translucency does not matter- the only things that matter are the texture, its ability to lather, and whether it zaps or not. Just put a cover on it, leave it alone off heat, and walk away for a few hours or more. When it reaches a point where it feels like thick, sticky taffy or like a soft, sticky caramel, test for zap, and test a blob of it under running water to see if it lathers. If it lathers and there's no zap- you have the green light to dilute.

Please keep us informed!


IrishLass

IrishLass...

Good news... Something deep down within told me to save the peanut butter taffy... So yes I have it still up at the shop. I figured someone would tell me how to save it or at worst use it to wash my car. It was a very thick amber colored paste... If I could cut them in little squares I could sell them as Bit O Honeys...

Also I have my 4th batch still in the crockpot with lid on so I'll attempt to zap and dilute tomorrow on both batches.

A few questions...

1. Do you think that I possibly cooked my KOH/Glycerin too long on the first batch or is that even possible.

2. When I melt my KOH/Glycerin does it truly have to come to a boil or can I just make sure it's dissolved.

3. Do you think that because I didn't get the tiny bubbles on my 4th batch today that it is still good or do I need to cook longer. I assume you're going to tell me to check the zap (which I will) but I didn't know if the bubbles were a necessity. On my 3rd batch last night I got the bubbles after only 8 or less minutes so I assumed it would do the same. It truly became translucent and acted exactly like the soap video you posted at the beginning of this thread. So I thought I was exactly on the right track. But then it went to peanut butter putty.

I know... Forget the color...

4. can you recommend a good quality metal blender. i thought the Kitchen aid one would work better than it does but I love my simple cheap Sunbeam for my CP soap. I can pick one up for $20 and it lasts me forever and truly moves the soap. Unfortunately it melted my cheapie blender today...

glassfishy said:

IrishLass...

Good news... Something deep down within told me to save the peanut butter taffy... So yes I have it still up at the shop. I figured someone would tell me how to save it or at worst use it to wash my car. It was a very thick amber colored paste... If I could cut them in little squares I could sell them as Bit O Honeys...

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Sweet! I'm so happy to hear you did not throw it away! I am confident that once you have diluted it, you will be kicking yourself for ever thinking of tossing it! lol The texture you describe is exactly how it should be.

glassfishy said:

Also I have my 4th batch still in the crockpot with lid on so I'll attempt to zap and dilute tomorrow on both batches.

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Excellent!

glassfishy said:

A few questions...

1. Do you think that I possibly cooked my KOH/Glycerin too long on the first batch or is that even possible.

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It's possible, but I honestly don't know the answer to that. For what it's worth, when I dissolve mine on the stove, the glycerin/KOH is at good hot, rolling boil. I remove it from the heat periodically, though, to calm things down enough to see how much KOH is still un-dissolved, and then I put it back on the heat to boil/dissolve some more until all is dissolved.

glassfishy said:

2. When I melt my KOH/Glycerin does it truly have to come to a boil or can I just make sure it's dissolved.

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Yes- the glycerin needs to be boiling or else the KOH will have a very hard time dissolving in it indeed. Don't be afraid to take it off the heat periodically to calm the boil down and see how things look, though. Near the end when all is almost dissolved, I often take it off the heat again to smash the last bits against the side of my pot to help them along, and then place back on the burner for a few minutes more if it looks like I need to do so.

glassfishy said:

. Do you think that because I didn't get the tiny bubbles on my 4th batch today that it is still good or do I need to cook longer. I assume you're going to tell me to check the zap (which I will) but I didn't know if the bubbles were a necessity.

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Yes- go ahead and check for zap, and also check the lather under running water, but I have every confidence that it's perfectly good even if you did not get the flying bubbles in the initial stages. If your lye is good, things will saponify, whether it be sooner or later, or flying bubbles or no. The flying bubbles are just an early, visible sign to us that saponification is occurring, and although they are very reassuring to us, their absence does not mean saponification is not taking place. In lieu of flying bubbles, you can be 100% absolutely sure that saponification has taken place the second you peek in your pot and see that you have thick, sticky taffy that you could cut up and sell as Bit 'o Honey bars.

glassfishy said:

On my 3rd batch last night I got the bubbles after only 8 or less minutes so I assumed it would do the same. It truly became translucent and acted exactly like the soap video you posted at the beginning of this thread. So I thought I was exactly on the right track. But then it went to peanut butter putty.

I know... Forget the color...

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Now you're learning! Peanut butter putty...thick, sticky taffy- that's exactly the texture you're shooting for, so do a happy dance!

glassfishy said:

4. can you recommend a good quality metal blender. i thought the Kitchen aid one would work better than it does but I love my simple cheap Sunbeam for my CP soap. I can pick one up for $20 and it lasts me forever and truly moves the soap. Unfortunately it melted my cheapie blender today...

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I'm in the same boat as you. I have the Kitchenaid stick-blender with the metal shaft, too, but I don't like it half as much as my cheapie Hamilton Beach SB with the plastic shaft. I feel the same way about the Kitchenaid SB as you do. I feel that it doesn't move things around as well as my cheapie SB. I also have a Cuisinart SB with a metal shaft that I bought as a back-up, but I haven't used it yet. Hopefully more will chime in on that.


HTH,
IrishLass

I'm more into the 'natural', less chemical liquid soap making. I use a paste method, I have liquid soap in less than 5 hours, that is thick as molasses or honey, with no chemicals, except borax and citric acid and glycerin, some essential oils and a food based dye.

I feel my process is quite fast, works beautifully, makes the most lathering and moisturizing soaps, and I can put any type of oil I desire into my formulations...........

We are all different, by the glycerine method seems so time consuming......

just my thoughts........

Thanks!

liquidsoaplady said:

I'm more into the 'natural', less chemical liquid soap making. I use a paste method, I have liquid soap in less than 5 hours, that is thick as molasses or honey, with no chemicals, except borax and citric acid and glycerin, some essential oils and a food based dye.

I feel my process is quite fast, works beautifully, makes the most lathering and moisturizing soaps, and I can put any type of oil I desire into my formulations...........

We are all different, by the glycerine method seems so time consuming......

just my thoughts........

Thanks!

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I hope I didn't give anyone the wrong idea. The glycerin method doesn't necessarily have to take too long, and it doesn't need a lot of 'hands-on' time.

For example, the olive oil formula that I make via the glycerin method can be made within 5 hours (or possibly even less) if I chose to cook it right to paste stage and dilute it right away, but I just choose to take my time with it. I simply just let it saponify on to the paste stage by itself while I go out and about and do other things, and then I come back to it later on in the day when I'm less busy. I love how it's very flexible that way and that I don't need to constantly babysit it if I have other pressing things that need my attention. I have it diluted and bottled that very same day by the time I go to bed, but without a whole lot of 'hands-on' time consumed at all.


IrishLass

liquidsoaplady said:

I'm more into the 'natural', less chemical liquid soap making. I use a paste method, I have liquid soap in less than 5 hours, that is thick as molasses or honey, with no chemicals, except borax and citric acid and glycerin, some essential oils and a food based dye.

I feel my process is quite fast, works beautifully, makes the most lathering and moisturizing soaps, and I can put any type of oil I desire into my formulations...........

We are all different, by the glycerine method seems so time consuming......

just my thoughts........

Thanks!

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I've made liquid glycerin soap using a low superfat(not lye heavy) and half water to dissolve the KOH(to avoid cooking) in way less than 5 hours from start to bottled soap.

How exactly is the "paste method" different from any other liquid soap making process? We all get paste that is then diluted.

I don't understand why you say your way is more "natural" with all the borax. Why do you make lye heavy soap that has to be neutralized? Seems silly to me when we have perfectly good lye calculators now that can help you avoid that whole extra step.

I am also not sure why you think we don't make soap using other oils. I do it all the time, depending on what kind of soap I am making, and who is getting it.

IrishLass is helping folks who want to make the liquid glycerin soap they saw in the video. Lots of us started making liquid soap after watching that video. However, that video and process are not perfect. Lots of problems in there, hence this thread. This is not claiming to be the only way to make liquid soap, just an easier way to make THAT soap. You are free to make soap however you like. You could even start your own thread with your method so folks can try it without having to hunt through other threads. Just sayin'.

I've been wanting to make LS, so thank you Irishlass (as always) for your detailed and helpful instructions. I personally don't wish to use borax. To each his own. Thanks glassfishy for posting, which resulted in such detailed responses sure to be helpful to many in the future.

I got my Welk on!



Thank you Irish! I used this method with a modified recipe (was just going for dish soap this time around). Used CO 65%, RBO 25%, and Castor 10%. I wound up melting my base oils and sapping the paste in the crock pot and when it came time to dilute I just diluted in the pot with a little heat, spoon stirring and straight distilled water. Dilluted 55% paste wight worth of water into the paste seemed to work well for me. It's thinner than honey and about what you get at the store.
I'm curious though I haven't seen EO usage rates for EO's in LS anybody have any about X% and go do your homework advice?
Thanks again to IL and everybody who contributed to the thread, this was great.