Would you please help me with a soap recipe?

[narnia]

I really love the Big Sur area!! Well...now that we have goats and are making soap and cheese...I guess we will have to continue the same, if we can ever break free from here.

My original intent was to take up painting, but now I've become hooked on soap!!!! :?

I was totally opposed to lard until recently, since I did not eat pork (non-religious reasons), but after reading this article, I realized that maybe I should at least try cooking with tallow.

http://www.weedemandreap.com/top-reasons-eating-lard/

And then this article converted me over to try using lard on skin, as it states that we are not plants, so plant oils cannot truly give our skin what it needs. We need animal fats because the fat composition is very similar to ours, and therefore very healing to our skin.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/traditional-nourishing-and-healing-skin-care/

I really like knowing the whys and the hows of things!

 

[Arimara]

I really love the Big Sur area!! Well...now that we have goats and are making soap and cheese...I guess we will have to continue the same, if we can ever break free from here.

My original intent was to take up painting, but now I've become hooked on soap!!!! :?

I was totally opposed to lard until recently, since I did not eat pork (non-religious reasons), but after reading this article, I realized that maybe I should at least try cooking with tallow.

http://www.weedemandreap.com/top-reasons-eating-lard/

And then this article converted me over to try using lard on skin, as it states that we are not plants, so plant oils cannot truly give our skin what it needs. We need animal fats because the fat composition is very similar to ours, and therefore very healing to our skin.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/traditional-nourishing-and-healing-skin-care/

I really like knowing the whys and the hows of things!

Eating bacon can tear my poor belly up but I like it once in a while. I prefer turkey bacon though. Anyway, thanks for the reads and this thread.

 

[lenarenee]

I really love the Big Sur area!! Well...now that we have goats and are making soap and cheese...I guess we will have to continue the same, if we can ever break free from here.

My original intent was to take up painting, but now I've become hooked on soap!!!! :?

I was totally opposed to lard until recently, since I did not eat pork (non-religious reasons), but after reading this article, I realized that maybe I should at least try cooking with tallow.

http://www.weedemandreap.com/top-reasons-eating-lard/

And then this article converted me over to try using lard on skin, as it states that we are not plants, so plant oils cannot truly give our skin what it needs. We need animal fats because the fat composition is very similar to ours, and therefore very healing to our skin.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/traditional-nourishing-and-healing-skin-care/

I really like knowing the whys and the hows of things!

I too, like to know the hows and whys of things. Good research takes time, so I don't research everything, but I certainly do it for the most important things. Did you know that grass fed tallow, butter are actually nutritious? Kerrygold butter - that beautiful gold color is beta carotene!

And that the study decades ago that was the basis for the American eating guidelines of low fat, low cholesterol, lots of carbs was based on bad science? And that many herbs and spices are very nutrient dense and can be far more nutritious than most fruits and veggies? http://mariamindbodyhealth.com/ Very interesting info presented here. Some of it is hard to take but she can back it up.

Wait...I'd better get back to the topic at hand. Fannie and Flo's tallow - I made a lotion bar with it - didn't even need to add scent. A little too soft to leave out during summer, but I didn't use beeswax, just tallow, coconut, and dab of avocado.

 

[Susie]

Narnia- I might suggest that as a brand new soaper, you might want to go with the most reasonably priced oils you can get so that when (not if) you have batches that are not good, you don't feel compelled to use them due to the cost of the ingredients. Then, when you have made a consistently good product, you can invest in more expensive ingredients.

Also, while tallow and lard are similar in the "numbers", they have vastly different qualities when saponified.

I understand that many people believe that "bad stuff" exists in the fats of commercially produced animals. However, I have yet to see any reports from a reputable source that proves that any "potential bad stuff" will then be spread over our skin when used in soap. Furthermore, while I can understand folks' hesitation to use "alleged potential bad stuff" in leave on products, we are talking about soap...that stays on your skin maybe 4-5 minutes MAX, then is rinsed down the drain. I have a real hard time thinking that that small of an exposure to "alleged potential bad stuff" will do any lasting harm.

 

[CTAnton]

Narnia, 2 things come to mind concerning possible alleged bad stuff in animal fats..
In my mind a vast array of potentially toxic chemicals would find their way to an animals liver, not it's fat

Having recently rendered deer fat by the lion princess method if any toxicity in the fat were water soluble after 4 renderings I would assume the vast majority of chemicals would be leached out into the water and thrown , in this case, in the yard.

 

[narnia]

Narnia- I might suggest that as a brand new soaper, you might want to go with the most reasonably priced oils you can get so that when (not if) you have batches that are not good, you don't feel compelled to use them due to the cost of the ingredients. Then, when you have made a consistently good product, you can invest in more expensive ingredients.

Also, while tallow and lard are similar in the "numbers", they have vastly different qualities when saponified.

I understand that many people believe that "bad stuff" exists in the fats of commercially produced animals. However, I have yet to see any reports from a reputable source that proves that any "potential bad stuff" will then be spread over our skin when used in soap. Furthermore, while I can understand folks' hesitation to use "alleged potential bad stuff" in leave on products, we are talking about soap...that stays on your skin maybe 4-5 minutes MAX, then is rinsed down the drain. I have a real hard time thinking that that small of an exposure to "alleged potential bad stuff" will do any lasting harm.

Thank you! That is sound advice! I just got a quote from Frannie & Flo. $2/lb for organic lard and tallow is actually less expensive per lb than 7 lb. bottles of olive oil, so I don't see it as an expensive ingredient. I am not crazy about using so much OO anyway...so I am excited about trying some lard and tallow!!!

Narnia, 2 things come to mind concerning possible alleged bad stuff in animal fats..
In my mind a vast array of potentially toxic chemicals would find their way to an animals liver, not it's fat

Having recently rendered deer fat by the lion princess method if any toxicity in the fat were water soluble after 4 renderings I would assume the vast majority of chemicals would be leached out into the water and thrown , in this case, in the yard.

As for absorption through the skin...I have taken many topical remedies so I know how absorbent the skin is. Also, we live on a well system, so no chlorine in our water. When we travel and take showers in chlorinated water, I can feel the ill-effects. So, since Chlorine is a toxin...and with the warm water opening up the pores, I would think that it leaves the door wide open for our skin to absorb whatever we use in the bath or shower, for benefit or harm. At any rate....I personally would rather not take any chances! As a matter of fact...once I nail down a good soap formula, I will be switching to all organic ingredients, if possible.

Just a couple of many articles about toxins accumulating in fat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulation

http://www.crankyfitness.com/2008/09/toxic-fat-reality-or-money-milking-myth.html

Here's one about skin absorbing toxins.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-burnes/skin-care_b_1540929.html

OK....so getting back to the recipe...

I think I will try this:

70% lard
15% CO
15% Sunflower oil (regular, not High oleic)

Soapcalc values for this recipe:
Hardness: 44
Cleansing: 18
Conditinion: 50
Bubbly: 18
Creamy: 16
Iodine: 61
INS: 145

Lauric: 7
Myristic: 4
Palmitic: 22
Stearic: 10
Ricinoleic: 0
Oleic: 36
Linoleic: 15

Is this OK? Will this cause DOS in CP and/or HP? How high SF can I go with this recipe and have it not get softer? I want a really moisturizing bar for the winter.

Thanks for your help!

 

[lenarenee]

No one can guarantee that recipe or any recipe will not develop dos - especially over time.

A few people have experienced dos developing quickly in high lard soaps; I have not. I made about 100 bars of it last year after Christmas, and at one year's time about 6 of them have dos.
And my recipe was almost exactly like yours. However, this part of California has very low humidity during the winter. Then again - I've had some improperly stored lard soap tucked away a cabinet with no air circulation - and no dos there.

I personally think dos is more complex than just storage conditions and superfat, i.e. more issues contributing to it than we realize.

You're not selling soap, right? Not making large quantities that you will expect to store for a year or more? Then make your recipe, and see how it fares in the immediate, median and far future. That's really the only way to get a definitive answer to your question about dos.

As for a moisturizing soap; many people here believe soap can't moisturize. I haven't made a decision on that, right not I'm inclined to not agree. After all, many people make a 100% coconut oil soap with a 20% sf to make up for the skin oils stripped off by the cleansing value of coconut oil so their skin won't feel dry. That sounds moisturizing to me.

However, because our skin has a system of balancing its ph, body oils and bacteria, I prefer to support that natural process by disturbing it as little as possible; therefore my recipes are low in cleansing (low myristic and lauric acids) to cause as little stripping of natural skin oils as possible. There's less need for re-moisturizing the skin to attain a near normal skin mantle.

A higher superfat can leave a layer of oils on your skin, at least it does on mine. I'm in childcare so I wash my hands a lot. I either have a highly superfatted bar of soap, or extremely low cleansing bar at the sink. I prefer the very low cleansing. I don't own my house, so I'm leery of excess oils going down the same sink multiple times a day.

The recipe you posted has a cleansing of 18, which isn't bad. But since you want a very "moisturizing" bar for the winter, that makes me think dry skin is a problem during that time, and I'd suggest a cleansing of 12 or under. My winter bar (for middle aged skin in very low humidity is an 8) I can even get away without using moisturizer many times with that soap (except for my hands)


This is all a very long way of telling you that: there's nothing wrong with the recipe you posted. Whether or not it is suitable for your specific environment and skin - no one can tell you - you'll just have to experiment.

 

[narnia]

The recipe you posted has a cleansing of 18, which isn't bad. But since you want a very "moisturizing" bar for the winter, that makes me think dry skin is a problem during that time, and I'd suggest a cleansing of 12 or under. My winter bar (for middle aged skin in very low humidity is an 8) I can even get away without using moisturizer many times with that soap (except for my hands)

Thank you!!!! I would love to not need moisturizer because my legs feel dry all the time!

I ran soapcalc for 80/10/10 and it gave me 43 hardness, 8 cleansing, and 51 conditioning, 8 bubbly. Hopefully, that will give enough bubbles?

 

[lenarenee]

Thank you!!!! I would love to not need moisturizer because my legs feel dry all the time!

I ran soapcalc for 80/10/10 and it gave me 43 hardness, 8 cleansing, and 51 conditioning, 8 bubbly. Hopefully, that will give enough bubbles?

With that much lard, you get a lot of creaminess instead of large boisterous bubbles.

Bubbles are not indicative of a quality bar of soap, but since we're used to store bought soap with synthetic additives to create a ton of bubbles, some people are unhappy with 8. I was at first - with my very first soaps, but quickly saw the huge benefit with many factors of homemade soap.

 

[narnia]

Hmmmm...then how can I have "8" cleansing with these 3 ingredients but with more bubbles?

 

[traderbren]

Numbers on paper and numbers in experience are not always the same. I urge you to try the recipes for yourself and see how you personally like them.

 

[cmzaha]

I like 20% Sunflower in my soaps and nope no dos. But I also love 20% Canola and have used it up to 35% with no dos. Only lard gives me dos problems. I happen to have a swap soap here from last year that is total dos. Its main is Tallow and I have never had dos with tallow. Just asked others what happened with my lard testing. Going to re-run that test in the next month or so, after I have collected several different brands. Farmer John Lard gives me the most grief

 

[lenarenee]

Let me see if I understand your question; there are two types of bubbles - large and creamy. Do you use soapcalc? Their bubbly category means the big but short lived bubbles. Creamy bubbles are tiny and more lotion. Lard makes creamy.

You've got a lot of experimenting to do girl! Get busy! Then you'll see for yourself what we're talking about!