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wondering if my LS looks right

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cm4bleenmb

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I made a batch of LS with Crisco (new), hemp, shea butter, hazelnut, and castor. I used glycerine for 75 grams of the 175 gr Soapcalc called for. I just wanted to try making some liquid soap and I had these oils that needed to be used . . . so, I threw them in the crockpot and melted them together, added the lye water, mixed it up really good, finally remembered to turn the crockpot off:oops: and set it aside for the night.
The next morning it looked like a really icy margarita slushie. I took 96 grams of it and added the same amount of water. It was nowhere near diluted so I added another 52 gr, then 64 more, totalling 112 gr of water. It's a little thin, but that's okay, it's just for me. I haven't added any fragrance and you can definitely smell the hemp.:razz:
I'm hoping some experienced liquid soapers will read this and tell me if it sounds like I did things correctly and if it looks right for being about a week and a half old. It has a sort of whitish, creamy looking layer on top that seems to be made up of lots of little bubbles and you can kind of see in the one picture that it sort of sticks up on the glass if I swirl it a little. It gives me lather and seems nice enough for being a playing-around-to-gain-experience-on-impulse batch, so I guess I'm just hoping for a little validation.
I love this forum and value every comment I read.

liquid 1.jpg

liquid 3.jpg
 

DeeAnna

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Looks like too much lye discount and the fats are separating out of the diluted soap.

Please post the recipe for your soap paste with weights (not %) of all ingredients -- hard to do anything more than guess without that info.
 

cm4bleenmb

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I set it for 3% superfat. This is all weighed in grams:
Castor Oil 45.36
Crisco, new w/palm 136.08
Hemp Oil 136.08
Shea Butter 45.36
Hazelnut Oil 90.72
Water was 172.36, I called it 175 and used glycerin for 75 of it. Lye was 93.23, I got it from ED and I checked 90% pure. My scale weighs grams in increments of 2, but I figure that's more accurate than half ounces, so I get as close as I can to the full number, then, taking into consideration whether the whole number is odd or even, I try to balance out the rest--for lye I ere on the side of less, for oil or water I ere on the side of more.
This is what it looks like now, at 20 days. I over-poured on my last addition of water for dilution, but used it anyways--so it's 96 grams of paste and 112 grams of water. It's thin but feels really nice, very soft and silky. The lather seems to be a good balance between bubbles and cream, it leaves my hands feeling alright, maybe a tad dry, but the water was hot. It still smells like hemp oil, maybe a little less than before, but I kind of expect that will never completely go away. It tastes like soap--blech. Nothing seems to have settled on the bottom of the jar, and I don't expect it to get clear with the oils I used.

If the creamy layer on it is from the SF, is it anything to be concerned about? I'm not trying to perfect this particular recipe, but any advice you want to share with me is greatly appreciated.

Liquid soap 20 days.jpg
 

IrishLass

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It's hard for me to tell from the picture, but it very well could be that the creamy layer on top might be nothing more than undiluted soap paste (especially if it lathers), which means that a little more water will be needed to fully dilute it.

If the layer is separated fat instead, it shouldn't lather, I would think.


IrishLass :)
 

Susie

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It looks like superfat on the top to me. It is still perfectly usable soap, though.
 

Seawolfe

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Is your KOH our typical 90% pure? did your soap calc take that into account?
 

cm4bleenmb

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there is grit in bottom now :(

Is your KOH our typical 90% pure? did your soap calc take that into account?
I used soapcalc, I checked the 90% box because the lye was from Essential Depot. I read that in a thread somewhere and the COA on their website confirms it.

The stuff on top doesn't look oily, and it doesn't look like a skin, it looks like cream. I was wondering about unsaponifiables in the oils, but for some reason, I was thinking those would sink to the bottom and there doesn't seem to be anything on the bottom of the jar.

It's already thin, but trying a bit more water won't hurt anything (I hope). I can always use it in a foamer, or add more paste back in. It's all about learning and experiencing, right?

Uh-oh. I may have spoke too soon. After taking the pics the other day, I gave the jar a couple of good swirls and today when I looked at the bottom of it, there actually does seem to be what looks like some sand at the bottom of the jar. My shea butter is unrefined, could there be gritties in that? Should I be concerned? Do you think I can pour it through a paper towel or a coffee filter? Or just carefully pour it off and resign myself to some loss?
 
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liquidsoaplady

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You can't use lard in liquid soap, it has way too many unsaponiables to make it useable, will separate out and never be clear.

Also sounds like you needed to cook for paste longer............how long did you cook it?

Did the paste turn opaque when it was finished cooking?

Some oils do not lend themselves well to liquid soap making......lard, other animal fats, waxes (jojoba, cocoa butter, lanolin, etc), palm kernel oil.

Animal fats cannot be used, waxes and palm kernel only in very small percentages like .5 to 3% of the formulation.

You can't achieve a good quality liquid soap using a high percentage of these types of oils.
 

DeeAnna

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People do use the high stearic-palmitic fats (lard, the butters, palm, etc.) to make LS. A LS made with these fats is usually cloudy to opaque, but whether that's acceptable clarity or not is entirely in the mind of the beholder. The opaque look can be enhanced with additives like stearic acid to create an attractive pearly luster.

This type of LS may not please those who insist on a clear product, but it should not be dismissed without a fair trial.

Irish Lass has posted a recipe that has a total of 25% cocoa and shea butters. Carolyn (cmzaha) has made palm LS with good success as well. Here are two threads that explain Irish Lass' recipe and method:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=454138#post454138
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=429152&postcount=15

****

For the record, lard and palm both have relatively little unsaponifiable material. The amount is less than 1% for edible lard. Ditto for bleached and deodorized palm. That is comparable to other common soaping fats, including the more typical LS making fats such as olive and coconut. Shea, on the other hand, can have up to 10% unsaponifiable material. Other fats high in unsaponifiable matter include avocado (4% to 9%), hemp (about 2%), and pumpkin seed (about 2%).

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard
https://books.google.com/books?id=V...AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=unsaponifiable lard&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=8...AEwBA#v=onepage&q=unsaponifiable lard&f=false
http://www.fao.org/docrep/004/y2774e/y2774e05.htm
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02545319#page-1
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf404278q
 
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KristaY

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Quick question - does everyone aim for clear LS? It's really not a consideration for me, but I wonder if I am the exception
Maybe we're both the exception, TEG. I don't care about clear either, just that it stays in solution and is good, safe soap. Actually I kinda like the opaque look, makes it seem creamier to me, lol. Yep, it's a mind game I play with myself!
 

Susie

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I don't care about clarity, either. My favorite hand soap thus far is high in lard. It is far less drying than the CO/OO I also make that is crystal clear. It is not clear, though. I colored it red, and with the white cloudiness, it looks like snow in there. I used cinnamon bark EO for scent.
 

IrishLass

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Clarity is not a huge issue with me. As long as everything stays in solution (as Krista said), it's good, safe soap. Although I do like and appreciate the crystal clearness of the OO/CO/Castor formula that I make, I actually prefer using my pearly/opaque formula with the high amount of cocoa butter with shea and added stearic. The rest of my family does as well.


IrishLass :)
 

cm4bleenmb

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Ah, DeeAnna, have I told you that I love you? (As well as all the other members!) Thank you for the links. I think I've read through the thread about 3Flower's recipe at least twice--there's so much to learn from it--but with those long threads, by the time I get to the end and have the answers, I've forgotten half the questions and thought of several more. :oops:

I don't care if the soap is clear, just that it's good. In fact, I was going to search for the info to make pearly LS. And now I don't have to. :clap:

My big question now is, what is the grit I'm seeing in the bottom of the jar? It looks like sand, and I thought it might be because my shea is un-refined, but I don't understand why it took so long to settle out. Maybe I can filter it.

I skimmed some of the stuff off the top, it feels like cream and the soap itsef has a sort of creamy softnes to it, very much like a good lotion feels--only with lather. It has actually gotten clearer, still cloudy, but definitely more translucent than it was two weeks ago. It still smells like hemp oil so I have no idea what to do about scent. Maybe I will just use the paste for cleaning the shower or something. Oh, but then I would need to make a new batch . . . :lol:

People do use the high stearic-palmitic fats (lard, the butters, palm, etc.) to make LS. A LS made with these fats is usually cloudy to opaque, but whether that's acceptable clarity or not is entirely in the mind of the beholder. The opaque look can be enhanced with additives like stearic acid to create an attractive pearly luster.

This type of LS may not please those who insist on a clear product, but it should not be dismissed without a fair trial.

Irish Lass has posted a recipe that has a total of 25% cocoa and shea butters. Carolyn (cmzaha) has made palm LS with good success as well. Here are two threads that explain Irish Lass' recipe and method:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=454138#post454138
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=429152&postcount=15
 

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