Wonderful pine tar soaps!

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

A response from the original assessor:

"I have asked our chemist about this again and his response was as follows:

"There's an SCCS opinion document to say that the safety of pine tar can't be established so it's definitely a no" SCCS is a European Body more properly called the Scientific Committee on Consumer Safety and you can find further details here:

http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/index_en.htm

Trust this helps,"

Not sure when or why the rules changed. I will keep mine as a personal stash to share with friends and family. It is a bit confusing that some are claiming to have had theire Pine Tar soaps UK cetified and it is openly being sold on etsy and ebay.

I think that I conclude my investigation lol, I will keep an eye on the thread in case the rules change and someone updates here. Thanks for all your helpful replies x

Interestingly enough, on that link that they supplied you with, I did a search for Pine Tar and it led me (the first result) to this document.

http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out123cm_en.pdf

I did a search in this pdf and on page 300 it lists it with an INCI and all that jazz.....................

 

[AnnaO]

Interestingly enough, on that link that they supplied you with, I did a search for Pine Tar and it led me (the first result) to this document.

http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out123cm_en.pdf

I did a search in this pdf and on page 300 it lists it with an INCI and all that jazz.....................

Goodness, so it is! Thank you for pointing that out.
Although I'm more confused than ever now :crazy:

Here's a clip from page 300. I've included all four 'pine' products; the 'tar' I assume to be the 3rd one down:



Edit: the date at the top of the document is 2000, I am wondering if regulations may have changed since then...

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

But then it doesn't appear in the database search! It's so infuriating. Wonderful thing with the EU is the lack of consistency from one person you speak with to the next - how are we supposed to get anything done?

 

[AnnaO]

Yes decisions seem to be so very subjective and seemingly based on esoteric information unavailable to mere mortals such as ourselves... maddening!

I did another search, and found this:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details_v2&id=59487

Which links to this:
http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out_203.pdf

 

[AnnaO]

Here's the last paragraph of the second link above - "OPINION OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE ON COSMETIC PRODUCTS AND NON-FOOD PRODUCTS INTENDED FOR CONSUMERS CONCERNING WOOD TARS AND WOOD TAR PREPARATIONS"

"SCCNFP is of the opinion that wood tar and wood tar preparations do pose a health risk when used in cosmetic products.
Wood tar and wood tar preparations contain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which are genotoxic carcinogens. Wood tar preparations have been found to induce both benign and malignant skin tumours in mouse skin and to form DNA adduct in human skin. The products may represent risk of skin cancer."

Which on the face of it seems disturbing.
But the document concerns itself with wood tar preparations, which include the creasotes too?
My head is spinning. I hope that someone brainier than I can make sense of all of this

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep, what the others say. The time to harden up enough to unmold depends on your basic soap recipe, which is why you see all kinds of conflicting stories. PT will add softness to a soap, so you need to plan ahead and formulate the basic recipe to account for that. Here's hoping your batch will be plenty firm!

 

[DiddlyO]

I've just made my first batch of pine tar soap (used Hawthorne brand pine tar) and I think I've gone against all recommendations.... 20% pine tar, 80% olive oil at 10% SF. It's in individual moulds, so I won't have to cut it but I will probably freeze them to get them out of the moulds.

I will let it cure for a good long time, but I'm so looking forward to using it!

 

[scottief]

My pine tar soap has been curing for 2 weeks now and its still very soft. So soft that I can push on it lightly and its leaving imprints. I hope it hardens up.

 

[soapshark2013]

soapshark13

I too, am new to this forum, but have been following the PT debate...I'm rather new to soaping, is PT hard to make?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I too, am new to this forum, but have been following the PT debate...I'm rather new to soaping, is PT hard to make?

It can be - it is not an easy oil to play with, in that it goes from light trace to set solid very quickly.

If you are familiar with the soaping process and used to how to get a certain recipe to trace, how long it takes and so on, then I would consider doing it.

That is the only hard thing. You can use a fairly normal recipe and just lower other oils to allow for (a good figure) 10% Pine Tar. Either hot or cold process will work - although I have only ever done it cold process myself.

There are some things to think on such as soaping cooler (room temperature) and not reducing the water too much so that you have more time to get it in to moulds.

How does that fit in with your situation?

 

[NancyCrt]

Jewelweed Soap for Acne

I LOVE jewel weed! I use jewelweed extract in most of my acne soaps. I've also used the fresh plants. Wonderful!

Sinful 7, do you make your jewelweed extract? I have infused oil with jewelweed, and ground the plant up with distilled water (currently in freezer) and I have fresh jewelweed. But I have never made extract. How do you make your jewelweed extract?

I want to make this for my 13 yr old grandson and 15 yr old granddaughter.

Thanks so much.

 

[DeeAnna]

Jewelweed threads:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=36375
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=11693
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=9617

For more, go to Google and use this search term: jewelweed soap site:soapmakingforum.com

 

[Ellacho]

Jewelweed threads:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=36375
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=11693
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=9617

For more, go to Google and use this search term: jewelweed soap site:soapmakingforum.com

Thank you DeeAnna for the threads! You are the best !

 

[CanaDawn]

Makes sense since for shows, you want black, shiny hooves.

That's hoof polish, a whole different product entirely. Pine tar is more like cuticle cream.

 

[soapshark2013]

PT debate

Thank you for your response Efficacious Gentleman, but WOW is all I can say...I have been soaping for just about one yr now...have sold some..but still feel very inadequate when it comes to altering recipes...am considering taking an online class since I haven't been able to find any here in Florida...I did come across a PT recipe, so am considering making this one just to see how it goes...am nervous though, but really enjoy this soapmaking process...so will see this through....

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

A great place to learn in on the fourm! Post a recipe idea there and get some feedback, tips and so on. It really helps the learning process.

 

[soapshark2013]

pine tar recipe

I don't understand most of the terminology used, what is SF, FA, mean. the soapcalc used this FA when I typed in pine tar....no clue. I can read a recipe, put it together, can't create a recipe, because I don't know the theory behind all this chemistry...

 

[Corinne]

I had no idea pine ta could help so much... both of my sisters have bad face and back skin problems so I will definitely get them to try it out! Thanks for the pics! Your niece looks really wonderful!

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I can read a recipe, put it together, can't create a recipe, because I don't know the theory behind all this chemistry..."

Well, hmmm, it's time to go to school, eh???

First off, there is an acronym and abbreviation thread right in this forum: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=32055

Also SF = superfat. FA = fatty acid.

Miller Soap is a free internet resource that is pretty sensible and factual: http://millersoap.com/

Another source of good information is Soapcalc http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp Be sure to check out the resources at the top of this webpage -- it's pretty clear you've missed reading the background info that is readily available on this website.

Anne Watson's book Smart Soapmaking gives a basic chemistry explanation of soap making and a brief intro into soap recipe formulation: http://www.annelwatson.com/soapmaking/ Buy: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0938497421/simpleproduction

For a more rigorous coverage of soap making chemistry, I recommend Kevin Dunn's book Scientific Soapmaking: http://cavemanchemistry.com/scisoap/index.html

Going past even the level of Dunn's book, one could go on to read articles and books about industrial soap making technology and chemistry, but most people don't make it to Dunn's book, even very good and highly respected handcrafted soapers. Obviously, these resources are really not necessary to formulate a good soap recipe.

 

[Jaccart789]

So incredible! I was recently thinking about making pine tar soap. When I researched it a couple of weeks ago I read or watched a video that stated to avoid certain types because it could be carcinogenic. Do you know what types to avoid or anyone on here know which ones are safe to use in soap making?