Quantcast

Why all the Castile &/ Bastile Slime Hate?

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Garden Gives Me Joy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
41
Location
United States
In a previous life, ie before knowing about skin types or soap making, I was shocked when someone voiced repulsion for a high-end beauty bar that, in my mind, epitomized divinity. His reason? "Eww! That thing just won't wash off already!" Ironically, the sliminess is precisely what I loved.

Today, I wonder whether our diametric perspectives are the result of different skin types. Specifically, I have dry skin while that person has very oily skin.

If my thinking is correct, is the same true for Castile and or Bastile soap slime? However, I feel confused because multiple threads discuss 'remedies' but none that I have seen ever glorify the slime. ... Or is it that, most people dislike slime regardless? ... Or is slime acceptable to dry skin but oily skinned people are more vocal and are the ones in these discussions because, while they love OO, the slime is the one thing they can't stand?
... Or is it that I have not yet experienced a negative phenomenon that is unique to home based lye soaping?
???
 
Last edited:

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
10,228
Reaction score
7,932
Location
Idaho, USA
Edit: have you ever experienced castile slime? After rereading your post, I suspect you are confusing skin slickness with slime, very different thing.

I have dry skin and hate the slime. I'd hate castile even if it wasn't slimy, its dries my skin something terrible.

Why the hate for slime? Well, I want my soap to lather and make bubbles, not feel like I'm smearing boogers on my skin.
 
Last edited:

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,316
Reaction score
18,857
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
No, I think it has very little to do with skin type.

My dislike about the slime from a high oleic soap is more of a texture thing -- the gloopy, stringy feel is objectionable. The only way around it is to use a puff or washcloth to break down the gel and turn it into actual lather. Even then the lather has a slick, slightly slimy feel that I think is rather icky.

Also some people dislike a soap high in olive because it's drying to their skin.
 

Zany_in_CO

Saponifier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
5,385
Reaction score
4,423
Location
SE Denver CO
In a previous life, ie before knowing about skin types or soap making, I was shocked when someone voiced repulsion for a high-end beauty bar that, in my mind, epitomized divinity. His reason? "Eww! That thing just won't wash off already!" Ironically, the sliminess is precisely what I loved.
You are typical of my customers that buy, use and love Castile soap. But, like your friend, there are many SMF members who dislike the slime and some who find it drying and are vocal about it. Castile definitely has a love-hate relationship with the handcrafted soap-buying population. They either love it or hate it.
 

Garden Gives Me Joy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
41
Location
United States
Edit: have you ever experienced castile slime? After rereading your post, I suspect you are confusing skin slickness with slime, very different thing.

I have dry skin and hate the slime. . ..
... feel like I'm smearing boogers on my skin.
Re confusing slickness and slime, quite likely. I figured it was like aloe, which I gather many people like but everyone's reaction to the slime phenomenon is so strong that I figure slime must feel different to what I imagine. Now I am so eager to experience it to be figure this out through touch.
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
10,228
Reaction score
7,932
Location
Idaho, USA
Re confusing slickness and slime, quite likely. I figured it was like aloe, which I gather many people like but everyone's reaction to the slime phenomenon is so strong that I figure slime must feel different to what I imagine. Now I am so eager to experience it to be figure this out through touch.
I may have a bar of castile floating around. I'm happy to send you a bar if I do.
 

Garden Gives Me Joy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
41
Location
United States
To what extent is slime problematic in Bastile soap? )?

I am guessing that oleic acid is the culprit re slime and, since it's score is less in Bastile soap, its chance of producing slime is less. Is there a rule of thumb cut off oleic acid score that makes soap more likely safer from the risk of getting slime? Below is the recipe I will try tomorrow. a Bastile Its oleic acid score of 52.

Pomace, 70%
Castor, 5%
PKO, 25%

... or are the OO grade (pomace, regular or EVOO) and or superfat oil(s) part or fully responsible? (When doing CP, I sometimes add an oil after emulsion to specifically establish which oil makes up the SF..)

I may have a bar of castile floating around. I'm happy to send you a bar if I do.
Thanks for the suggestion. How can that be arranged?
 
Last edited:

Zing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
2,957
Location
Minnesota
I'm all about 'to each his/her own.' Soap preferences are idiosyncratic. For a long time I was so intrigued by Aleppo (largely olive oil based) soap. I bought some and it smelled awesome -- but felt icky and slimy in the shower. I'd love to replicate the smell but want tons more bubbles. I don't hate it, it's just not for me, and I can appreciate that others would like it or even love it. Now knowing what goes into soap making, I could never hate soap -- I'll respect it even if it's not for me.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,316
Reaction score
18,857
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
I'm certain a high percentage of oleic acid is required for a soap to produce slime. IMO, soap with about 60% oleic acid or more will have a high slime factor.

I'd say soap with 50 to 60% oleic acid is very likely to produce slime, but in this in-between gray area, I suspect the other fatty acids in the soap might alter the slime factor some. I'd guess that lauric and myristic acids (coconut, palm kernel) might reduce the slime factor. My guess is palmitic and stearic acids (lard, palm) might not change the slime factor a lot. I haven't tested this idea, however, so it's just a guess.

Soap with less than 50% oleic acid very likely won't produce slime. Most of my soap recipes have roughly 45% oleic acid, and the soap doesn't do slime at all.

There's no commonly accepted definition of what qualifies as a "bastile", so the soaps that people call "bastiles" vary all over the map. I don't think you can draw any general conclusions about slime factor just from the name.
 

Zany_in_CO

Saponifier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
5,385
Reaction score
4,423
Location
SE Denver CO
... or is the OO grade (pomace, regular or EVOO) part or fully responsible?
In 2005, I hosted an international "100% Olive Oil Soap Swap". There were 10 participants -- USA, Canada, France, the Netherlands, South Africa. Shipping Overseas Priority Mail was only $11.00 back then!!! By chance, no two people used the same grade/type of OO. The consensus was that the type of OO made no difference.

If you want Castile with no slime, try this:
ZANY'S NO SLIME CASTILE

I make the 85% olive, 10% coconut, 5% castor variation because i like a little more bubblies in my soap.
:tub:
 

Zany_in_CO

Saponifier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
5,385
Reaction score
4,423
Location
SE Denver CO
There's no commonly accepted definition of what qualifies as a "bastile", so the soaps that people call "bastiles" vary all over the map. I don't think you can draw any general conclusions about slime factor just from the name.
@DeeAnna Well said.
However, FWIW, this old lady was around when the nomenclature "Bastile" came onto the soap making scene where it still exists today. The (loose) definition is "Bastardized Castile" that contained at least 70% olive oil with the addition of other oils/butters of choice but no animal fats. I reckon one of the reasons for its presence was to add lather and offset the slime factor. Not sure about that.

While we're on the subject, it should be mentioned that "Castile" is defined as 100% olive oil on soapmaking groups only. In the real world, soaps such as Dirk's Coco Castile (100% coconut oil) and Dr. Bronners Castile pre-dated the internet and hence soapmaking groups. The legal definition of Castile Soap is "contains no animal fats" aka "tallow" which was prevalent in soaps in the mid-20th century. ;)
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,316
Reaction score
18,857
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
HO Canola and HO Sunflower will also produce Soaps with slime/snot if used at 100% or in high percentage.
Yeah, I agree with this. I've made soap using 70% HO sunflower + 30% avocado. It makes a very slimy and stringy soap that works really well as a soap for wet felting (another one of my hobbies). That's my only use for this particular recipe.
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
10,228
Reaction score
7,932
Location
Idaho, USA
I made a 100% HO safflower soap and it wasn't slimy. It was still slick and had a similar feel to castile, it just didn't make the thick layer of snot. It lathered slightly better too and didn't make my skin as tight as OO does.
 

Becky1024

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
114
Reaction score
129
Location
USA
I'm on the "love it' side. I've made hundreds of batches of bastile soap and some Castile soap too and never have seen slime. I'm guessing the hardness or softness of water may be a factor, but have not tested it. I love the way olive oil makes my dry sensitive skin feel, and my customers like it too. But everybody's skin is unique and what one may love, the other hate.
 

Hope Ann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
59
Reaction score
70
Location
Englewood. OH
It's a texture thing thing for me.

If I follow Zaneys no-slime to the word I don't get it. If I add a little SF I get a little slime, but it feels more silky than snotty. I used it on my freshly radiated skin last year and loved the wee bit of slime as it spread easily over the sensitive area.

Hope
 
Top