Which oils to start with?

[Primrose]

Hi All, I'm new to the forum, and new to soap making. I've been reading through the forums heaps to try and get some research, been watching soap queen you tube tutorials, and talking to other soapers. Just generally getting a feel for things. I feel reasonably prepared to give a batch a go - cold processing.

The question I am wondering about though is what oils and what percentages to choose, to start off with. Yep I do understand the lye calculators and I've been playing with the soapee one. Being a first timer, I'd like to stick with easy to purchase oils from the supermarket - simple, cost effective and if I decide I don't want to pursue soap making, no big deal.

I was wondering about using a combination of coconut oil, olive oil and castor oil. These seem fairly popular in terms of simple beginners soap recipes on various blogs etc. Is it fine to just use these three? I'm seeing people often adding palm oil, tallow etc to these oils, is there a real benefit there, and should I consider that as well, or is it all much of a muchness?

I was wondering about 5% castor oil, 20% coconut oil, 75% olive oil. But very much flying by the seat of my pants here and would love to hear if you would use different percentages, and why, or different oils.My partner does have sensitive skin which is why I kept the coconut oil percentage fairly low but I wasn't sure if it could go a bit higher, and if it would be beneficial. I like a good lather, have had handmade soaps in the past that dont lather well and it really annoys me, I read somewhere that the castor oil helps with the lather? I don't mind too much if it isn't a really hard bar of soap, we've got used to using handmade soap from friends and learning not to leave them in a place where they stay wet, cos they 'melt' LOL

If it makes a difference, I intend to try making goats milk soap. I do understand this is considered a more difficult soap, and some people suggest starting with just oils, lye and water, however I have a small hobby farm and my primary interest with soap making is to utilize some of the excess goats milk I have. I have already frozen it in ice cube trays and have watched and read about the finicky-ness of using milk in soap making.

Oh one more thing, on the soapee lye calculator in the oils options, it has coconut oil 76 degrees, coconut oil 92 degrees, coconut oil fractionated. What do these mean and how do I figure out which one is the one I get, assuming I purchase a jar from my local supermarket?

Sorry for what turned into a very long post, but thank you in advance for any help you can give me!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I would start with the 3 basic soapmaking oils:

45% Olive Oil
30% Palm Oil (or Lard)
25% Coconut Oil

Use the default options for water (38%) and superfat (5%)
You'll need a mold that accommodates a 1 lb batch of oils/approx. 23 oz. soap...
something like a 1-quart clean milk carton works well.
Most importantly, be sure to follow all safety measures.

Oh one more thing, on the soapee lye calculator in the oils options, it has coconut oil 76 degrees, coconut oil 92 degrees, coconut oil fractionated. What do these mean and how do I figure out which one is the one I get, assuming I purchase a jar from my local supermarket?

Choose coconut oil 76 degrees -- that's the one used in most CP recipes. I don't know what the advantage is to coconut oil 92 degrees and I use FCO (Fractionated Coconut Oil) in lotion. My understanding is that it is not saponifiable, but it is a VERY nice oil in other products, like lotion

WELCOME & HAPPY SOAPING! :bunny:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Fractionated coconut is liquid at room temperature, so if you have a more solid one then it is either 76 or 92. You'll notice that these two require the same amount of lye whereas fractionated differs, so for our purposes you only need to know if it is fractionated or not - if it is 76 or 92 doesn't change your recipe.

If you're happy using animal products, I would then use some lard. But I would make your original recipe first, then soon after change it to 50% lard and/or tallow with 25% olive. That way you can actually see the difference between them and see which you prefer. I would make the higher olive one first as it will take a lot longer time to really start to show it's abilities.

 

[lenarenee]

Hi and welcome to the world of soap making!

76 degree coconut is solid below 76 degrees, and starts melting above that. 92 degree is the same as fractionated coconut oil, but the two oils have differences, but I'm not sure I can accurately explain more.

The recipe you mentioned trying with olive, coconut and castor will make a nice bar of soap, but it will need to cure several months before it performs well. That's due to the high percentage of olive oil.

If you go to the grocery store you may be able to find palm in the form of Spectrum palm shortening (100% palm), and others from other companies.

Lard is available in many stores, plus Wal Mart and my Targets. Lard and palm (and tallow) contribute very similar qualities for soap - mainly a hard base. I prefer lard for many reasons, but also because it gives a voluminous creamy quality to the lather.

Coconut and palm kernel oil provide the large bubbles in lather. 15 - 25% is a good amount, but some soapers use more than that. I like up to 20% due to the fact saponified coconut oil strips the natural oils from your skin.

So a good starting recipe for you would be:

40% palm/lard/tallow or mix thereof
20% coconut, 76 degree, not the 92 or fractionated coconut oil
30% olive oil
5% castor

ETA: the recipes posted before me are fine too! You just need to pick a starting one, make it, cure it, try it, repeat! Take notes on your experience and observations. Enjoy!

 

[Primrose]

Awesome information, thanks so much everyone.

Thank you for explaining the coconut oil thing, the coconut oil I can get is solid at room temp, so I will use the 72 one in the calculator.

I like the idea of trying the original recipe first and then trying one with lard (thanks EG) to see how they perform differently and which we like better. I'm not opposed to using animal products, and it seems easier to get lard at my local shops than palm oil.

The high percentage olive oil recipe, will 8 weeks be long enough to cure, or will it need longer?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

You might be looking at closer to 12 weeks to cure that one - one interesting point on curing is that it can vary from person to person. Soaps will almost always get better with age and so when a soap is cured for YOU is that point where giving it more time is no longer worth the improvement.

As an example, the recipe with 50% lard: You CAN use it as soon as all of the lye has reacted (about 24 hours unless you chill the soap) but it will get better with time. Each week it improves, but at 4 weeks it is really much better. 5 weeks is better than 4 weeks, but is the improvement worth it? Many say yes, but you will need to try it to see if it is worth it for you. And it is one of the things which is really worth trying early on in soaping and then to keep it going whenever you change a recipe.

 

[lenarenee]

Awesome information, thanks so much everyone.

Thank you for explaining the coconut oil thing, the coconut oil I can get is solid at room temp, so I will use the 72 one in the calculator.

I like the idea of trying the original recipe first and then trying one with lard (thanks EG) to see how they perform differently and which we like better. I'm not opposed to using animal products, and it seems easier to get lard at my local shops than palm oil.

The high percentage olive oil recipe, will 8 weeks be long enough to cure, or will it need longer?

Longer is better; I've made that exact recipe. Huge difference between 2 months and 9+ months. Two months = hmm, okay. Nine months = wow I gotta make more of this! It lathers much better, texture is better, skin feel is better, etc. Is it the best soap ever? No. But I keep this recipe on hand for when I or others need a gentle soothing soap.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Yeah, in addition to a long cure, I've found that castiles with a high % of olive oil take longer to trace, stay longer in the mold, and need a few extra days before you can cut. There are ways around all that, but it's best left for down the road a piece.

 

[Primrose]

Some really interesting thoughts, thanks very much guys.

I am almost inclined now to perhaps make two batches, one with the lard and one without, and see how the compare and which one we like better.

Further down the track I want to experiment with additives of course but first I just want to get a base recipe down pat.

Hoping to get to the shops today before they close to get supplies and possibly try a batch tomorrow. Thank you very much for your input, and I'll let you know how it goes

 

[BattleGnome]

Two batches to compare is always a good thing. It's both a learning process and more soap. ;p

 

[navigator9]

Any of the above recipes is a good place to start, and you will probably find that it's a good place to end, also. Most soapmakers, at some point feel the urge to try some exotic, expensive oils, but most of us come back to the tried and true basics for the soaps we make over and over again. It's really more about the balance of these basics that give you a recipe that works for your skin. Too drying? Try raising the olive and lowering the coconut. Do you like those results better? Take good notes and keep on tweaking until you come up with the recipe that works best for you. In the process of tweaking, you'll make a lot of batches, and learn a lot about soapmaking along the way.

 

[lsg]

I like palm, olive oil, coconut and Castor oils in most of my soaps. Castor oil will give you some fluffy bubbles.

 

[toxikon]

I think it's pretty hard to go wrong with this combination:

50% Lard/Tallow/Palm
25% Olive Oil/Avocado Oil/High Oleic Sunflower
20% Coconut Oil/Babassu Oil/Palm Kernel Oil
5% Castor Oil

30-33% Lye Concentration

It'll make a nice hard, balanced and bubbly bar. And it's the recipe I use the most. I use lard as my hard oil because it's cheap, traces slowly and feels lovely. I use a combo of olive oil and avocado for my soft oils. And coconut oil because it's very easy to find and cheap.

 

[dixiedragon]

Welcome to the forum! I don't know if 92 degree coconut oil performs any differently in soap. I know some people here prefer it because they live in very hot climates (Western US, South Florida) and it's easier to handle a bucket of solid or semi-solid oil vs a bucket liquid oil. I don't quite get that myself - I find it easier when the oil is liquid. Another use is in a product such as a body-bar or a lip balm where you may want a higher melt point in the end product.

Fractionated coconut oil is the opposite - it is liquid and room temperature and it's good in applications where you want a lower melt temp. I use some of my 76 coconut in my lip balm (I live in Alabama and I like a higher melt temp) and I use fractioned coconut in salves (and on my dog).

You may want to consider adding lard or palm to your recipe. You can get lard at Wal-Mart - probably Armor brand in a green and white bucket. If you look at the all veg shortenings they will have palm oil in them. You can choose Crisco All Veg in the lye calculator to use that (even if it's not Crisco brand, it's close enough).

Lard (or palm) 40%
Coconut oil 10% (b/c you said your partner had sensitive skin)
Olive 45%
Castor 5% (don't go higher than 10% on your first attempt, it will produce a rubbery bar).
5% superfat (this is the standard in lye calcs)

 

[littlehands]

My basic recipe is palm, coconut, olive and castor. If I want to make a grocery store soap, I use either shortening or lard as a substitute for the palm oil. Soap Queen has a lot of good recipes, as well as articles on how to formulate a recipe. You also might want to look at Smart Soapmaking and Milk Soapmaking by Anne L. Watson on Amazon. If you get the Kindle versions, they are very inexpensive and have a lot of great information for beginners, as well as recipes to get you started.

 

[sweetbean]

Right now I am playing with oils to use. At first, I only used olive and coconut. I found this soap to lather great, but was drying.

Now I've added lard. I thought about using palm oil, but with sustainability issues, lard was a better fit for me. Lard is also cheaper (in my experience), so it's a win-win for me.

Soaping is all trial and error, so after a while you'll find what you like best. Do you like a more moisturizing bar, or hard, long lasting bar, etc. It's really personal preference!

I have not used castor oil, but eventually would like to try it out. The next oil I plan on "trying" is hempseed oil.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think that Trial is good, but Error can be avoided - I always post new recipes here for a sanity check before going too far off piste, so if there is something that looks utterly foolhardy someone here can pick it up.

 

[WeaversPort]

Welcome to the our slippery corner of the world!

I think it would be fun to try your recipe and then one of the lard/palm recipes. The brand of Palm shortening Zany mentioned is supposed to be sustainable. Yu could even get really crazy and do three batches - one palm, one lard, and your original one!

One person mentioned that high olive will mean more time in the mold, but if you are like me when I started out, I had no idea what to look for before unmolding the soap. Lenarenee gave me a great rule of thumb - look for it to be like hard cheddar: hard enough you could dent it with pressure, but still soft enough you could cut it smoothly with a knife.

The palm and lard will probably need 24 hours in the mold, the olive will probably need a full 48 hours. If you want to plan it in order of cure and usability, I'd do the olive oil first (it'll take the longest to cure, might as well get it "cooking"), followed by the lard, followed by the palm. That way you have soap already in process, and two more batches coming up for use!

If you don't already have molds or equipment, my first molds were cleaned out water bottles and Pringles cans. Most of my equipment came from the dollar store. Look for heat safe items (Tupperware, etc) and items with the recycling #5 on them.

I hope this helps!

:bunny:

 

[Arimara]

Your starting recipe (75% olive oil, 20% coconut oil, 5% castor oil) would not be too bad to start with if that is all that you can afford to get. The others have given great suggestions. My personal one is to keep the recipe from your first post and make it once you feel comfortable making soap. You can subtract about 25% from the olive oil (for simplicity sake) and use a butter (ex-shea), lard, a tallow or even shortening like crisco or walmart's gv shortening (it's not vegetarian friendly and it has palm but, I like it).

 

[Primrose]

I did end up getting some lard at the supermarket yesterday (I am in Australia so no Walmart) and will try both recipes and see how we like them. I think at this stage I do want a fairly gentle moisturizing bar as our main shampoo/bath bar. Later down the track I might look at harder and exfoliating/scrubbing bars as my OH works on cars so quite often needs to scrub grease off his hands and arms. But for now I just want a simple recipe down pat that I can play with later