What's wrong with my soap

[Kallisto]

Hello,
I'm making a hot process soap method
using soapcalc.net
50 grams coconut oil
800 grams sunflower oil
(then removed 30 grams to make it less oily/slippery..so used 770 grams)
zero super fat
118 grams water
118 grams lye
used stick blender then hand stirring after heavy trace

my soap is not consistent at all
should i turn off the heat and take the pot away from the stove earlier ?
posted pic of my pot and mold

and which method is more practical for large batches for commercial use CP or HP ?

Thank you

View attachment 43366 View attachment 43366

 

[Obsidian]

I'm not quite sure why you removes the 30 grams of oil. If you set the lye calc superfat to 0, there wouldn't have been any oil left over.
Did you adjust the lye amount for the altered oil amount? If not, its going to be lye heavy.

It looks like its been cooked to death, it should have been molded much sooner. I'm not sure how being lye heavy would affect it going into proper vaseline stage.
HP should have more water too, try 3 parts water to one part lye. Too little water can make the soap too dry while cooking.

I would toss this and try again. This time, don't remove any oils from the recipe. Set your sf at 0 and stick to the recipe as it appears in the calculator.

Oh, you also need to line your wooden mold
Most people use freezer paper but for HP, wax paper should be ok.

 

[Kallisto]

I'm not quite sure why you removes the 30 grams of oil. If you set the lye calc superfat to 0, there wouldn't have been any oil left over.
Did you adjust the lye amount for the altered oil amount? If not, its going to be lye heavy.

It looks like its been cooked to death, it should have been molded much sooner. I'm not sure how being lye heavy would affect it going into proper vaseline stage.

I would toss this and try again. This time, don't remove any oils from the recipe. Set your sf at 0 and stick to the recipe as it appears in the calculator.

Oh, you also need to line your wooden mold
Most people use freezer paper but for HP, wax paper should be ok.

Thank you for taking the time to reply Obsidian
Earlier test batches i didnt remove any oils and i used the exact.amounts of soap calc recipe and still got a Non- Consistent one like the pics above
i'm using a small gas tank something like stove top with kinda direct flame..
maybe the heat is high and i was late taking it off like you said...and i should mold it at this stage in this pic below ?

after litting it sit for few.minutes to not get volcano in.mold
but then i will be worried if i let it sit it will hold to itself and i will have to stir.manually and break it and make it non consistent again...

 

[Obsidian]

By non consistent, do mean chunky? I think its a combo of not enough water and overcooking.
You shouldn't be using direct heat, try a double boiler or crock pot.

I would have poured it while smooth. At that point, it was cooked enough to stay together. I've never seen HP volcano, not something I would worry about.

 

[Kallisto]

By non consistent, do mean chunky? I think its a combo of not enough water and overcooking.
You shouldn't be using direct heat, try a double boiler or crock pot.

I would have poured it while smooth. At that point, it was cooked enough to stay together. I've never seen HP volcano, not something I would worry about.

Ok, I will keep testing..
and which method CP or HP is more practical for large batches ?

*and i removed the 30 grams of oil for the sake of testing cuz i was getting very slippery soap so i thought i cut back on oil a little and see what happens.

Thank you very much for directing me to the right path...
I appreciate it

 

[shunt2011]

I prefer CP. However, you don't want to make large batches until you know what you're doing and after testing to see if you even like it. Also, unless you are using High Oleic Sunflower Oil you may have an issue with DOS. HP and CP require a good cure. HP sometimes longer as it requires more liquid to make.

 

[Dawni]

Don't cut back on anything without running everything through a calculator....

Is there a particular reason you're using this recipe? Any particular reason you want to HP it?

Here's what I got when I tried it in the calculator I use, with the minimum amount of water I'd use.

It's probably slippery because it's not a very balanced recipe. Also, unless you're using high oleic sunflower, you're more likely to get DOS. Lastly, you'll probably need to cure this quite a while.

Would you be open to trying a small batch of maybe 80% sunflower (high oleic) and 20% coconut? The resulting numbers are better in this ratio.. But you'll still need a longer cure for this one. Big batches are a waste if, like in this case, things don't go as planned.

HP vs CP for commercial soap, I think, depends a lot on cooking vessel size. My slow cooker only fits about 5kgs so obviously that's the max I can make at one time. HP does not require a shorter cure by the way. Try and get your recipe, and your procedure down before thinking of selling.. There's just too many factors that need testing before you've got the "perfect" product.

 

[Kallisto]

I prefer CP. However, you don't want to make large batches until you know what you're doing and after testing to see if you even like it. Also, unless you are using High Oleic Sunflower Oil you may have an issue with DOS. HP and CP require a good cure. HP sometimes longer as it requires more liquid to make.

Alright, Thank you very much Shunt
I'll take what you said into consideration.

Don't cut back on anything without running everything through a calculator....

Is there a particular reason you're using this recipe? Any particular reason you want to HP it?

Here's what I got when I tried it in the calculator I use, with the minimum amount of water I'd use.
View attachment 43377
It's probably slippery because it's not a very balanced recipe. Also, unless you're using high oleic sunflower, you're more likely to get DOS. Lastly, you'll probably need to cure this quite a while.

Would you be open to trying a small batch of maybe 80% sunflower (high oleic) and 20% coconut? The resulting numbers are better in this ratio.. But you'll still need a longer cure for this one. Big batches are a waste if, like in this case, things don't go as planned.

HP vs CP for commercial soap, I think, depends a lot on cooking vessel size. My slow cooker only fits about 5kgs so obviously that's the max I can make at one time. HP does not require a shorter cure by the way. Try and get your recipe, and your procedure down before thinking of selling.. There's just too many factors that need testing before you've got the "perfect" product.

True, I realized it's not that easy as i thought at first...and it require alot of experiments until i get the perfect recipe and method.

I choosed HP cuz after reading online and watching some youtube videos i thought it require much less cure time before actual use ?

for the recipe i used...i made it 50% lye concentration (1:1 water lye ratio) so it will cook faster and cure quicker. (less water to evaporate)

How to know if my sunflower oil is high Oleic ?
i used bottled one from supermarket.
and the label doesn't give much detailed info.

Earlier i used bottled mix frying oil just for experiments but oil mix ratio was not.printed on label. and i tried to call the.manufacturer to get the exact ratios to.put into calculator but no answer from.their customer support.

I choosed coconut.oil because I read it gives good lather.

also im having an issue with.coloring
I used green powder food color i pre-mixed once in little water and another test batch in little glycerin around 10 grams and added while trace and it turn Orange color (like the pictures above) not the green color i want...

 

[szaza]

What kind of oils do you have access to?/ What do they sell in your local grocery store? If you can find sunflower oil specifically made for frying that would be a good start, because it's the high oleic type of sunflower oil that doesn't get DOS as easily as regular sunflower oil. Olive oil would also work if you can get it. Actually pretty much any oil can make soap, as long as you know what's in it (which is indeed a problem with most frying oils).

I second the suggestion to use more coconut oil (I like to use up to 25%, but that's purely personal preference)

Unfortunately HP soap doesn't cook quicker with less water, it just dries out quicker and gets lumpy. Try adding more water. A bit of yoghurt added after cook also helps to get a more fluid batter (take about 1tbs per pound of oil, which is almost 2 tablespoons for your current recipe)

HP vs CP is also a personal preference. Try both and see which one you like best!

As for the cooking method, I assume you don't have a crock pot, but there are different other ways to cook soap. I prefer to use my oven, but since you're cooking on a gas burner I presume you might not have one. It's possible to cook soap au-bain-marie (put your soapmaking pan in a larger pan filled with boiling water), though I tried and didn't like that way of doing HP. Another thing I just thought of that I haven't tried, but could work is making a sand oven like this:
You probably won't need to stir much. I actually prefer not to stir my HP and just let it go through gel and sometimes zap test to make sure it's finished.
Lastly, there are very few food colorants that survive the high pH of soap. There are different ways to color soap. Most people here use micas, but those are not sold in grocery stores. It's possible to color soap with plants and clays but plants are finicky, so that will be a whole other line of experimentation.
Good luck!

ETA: I personally really enjoy using plant colorants, but I know most people prefer other types of colorants

 

[Obsidian]

I would think CP is better for large batches.sonce you don't have to wait around for it to cook. Once its a trace, it can be colored amd poured.

Its a complete myth the HP doesn't need a long cure like CP. Doesn't matter how you make it, lye soap will need a 6-9 week cure, sometimes longer.
Cure isn't just about tje soap drying, there is a chemical process that takes place.

All HP does is speed up the saponification process.

Since you are having such a hard time with HP, I suggest trying CP. Get or make a mold that makes a 1 pound batch.

 

[TheGecko]

and which method is more practical for large batches for commercial use CP or HP?

Welcome Kallisto.

First of all, I would say the reason why you are gettin inconsistent results is two-fold: 1) you are changing your recipe on the fly and that is a really, REALLY bad idea, and 2) you are using different recipes each time.

With regard to Item 1, the reason why we use a soap calculator is because it gives us the precise amount of lye need to turn our oils/butters into soap. If you use more or less oil or substitute a different oil, you change how the soap is going to turn out. Too much oil and your soap will be soft and oily and melt away, too little oil and your soap will be harsh and potentially cause burns because it now has too much lye.

With regards to Item 2, to have consistent results you have to use the same exact recipe and prepare it the same exact way time and time again.

As to your question...when I first started researching soap making, I compared HP and CP. As the idea grew from making soap for my family and turning it into a business...CP won hands down. I made seven batches of soap yesterday afternoon in just a couple of hours; a salt soap, a coconut soap, 2-1lb new FO soaps, 3-2lb restocks. I couldn’t do with HP in the same amount of time without multiple crockpots and I don’t have the room for them. When times comes for me to start making more soap, I can still do in in my kitchen on my rolling kitchen island...just need a big bowl and bigger molds. For HP...I would need a lot more crockpots or a large caldron and where would I put them?

FYI - HP is not ‘faster’ than CP. HP needs to cure the same as CP. The biggest difference between HP and CP is the saponification time. With CP soap you mix the batter, pour it in a mold and let it sit somewhere for 18 - 24 hours as it goes through the saponification process. Hot Process IS the saponification process...instead of having to wait 18 - 24 hours, you have soap when it has finished cooking. You STILL have to cure the soap.

 

[Kallisto]

Thank you very much for every one who wrote helpful info and advice in this thread,
I'm so grateful for your assistance.
It was very kind of each of you...