What's going to Happen? - New Simple Recipe

[kdm]

I've posted a couple of recipes after they've gone badly and a couple of you good folks have said "post them before you make them for comments."

So here goes:

• 250g pork tallow
• 150g coconut oil
• 130g olive oil
• 20g lavender oil
• 20g beeswax
• 2 tsp mica colouring
• 88g NaOH
• 235g H2O

Soapee says:

• Bubbly 24%
• Cleansing 17%
• Condition 51%
• Hardness 40%
• Longevity 24%
• Stable 31%

Which is fairly OKay-ish, I think. Comments on a postcard, please!

 

[lsg]

You should have a hard bar with some creamy lather but not many bubbles.

 

[Babyshoes]

Is that lavender essential oil, or lavender infused oil?

 

[kdm]

Is that lavender essential oil, or lavender infused oil?

Essential oil.

 

[kdm]

Beeswax doesn't seem to have any affect on the properties on Soapee. Why would we add id? To make it harder?

I made the above. I think I over-whipped it again. I can't seem to find "trace". It went very thick almost immediately on being poured, so I suspect it'll be full of air bubbles.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Comments on a postcard, please!

 

[kdm]

<postcard>

Yes, I think you and I will get along just fine. I think you made some pee come out. I don't recognise the tick with a line through it. Is that Greek?

I think I had set superfat to 3% (as this was less than 5), but i don't understand its significance.

So, apart from the fact that certain lye calculators have different ideas to others, are we saying that beeswax is nothing but bulk?

 

[artemis]

Beeswax doesn't seem to have any affect on the properties on Soapee. Why would we add it? To make it harder?

A harder bar is one reason. Label appeal is another. If you are doing something bee-themed you might want to include it just to keep with the theme.
Why did you want to use it?

I think I over-whipped it again... It went very thick almost immediately on being poured...

Beeswax probably contributed to the soap tracing quickly.

 

[kdm]

A harder bar is one reason. Label appeal is another. If you are doing something bee-themed you might want to include it just to keep with the theme.
Why did you want to use it?

My deal is to use (as much as possible) stuff I already have before I go buying specialist stuff. My shed is mostly metalwork and woodwork; I have beeswax. So far, the only thing I didn't find between my kitchen and my shed was the NaOH!

Beeswax probably contributed to the soap tracing quickly.

Ah. I wonder.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Beeswax will not make lye-heavy soap (-7% SF) skin friendly.



Even if the lavender oil were 100% linalyl acetate, it could make up only for about half of that excess lye; for the other 3% you must rely on reduced purity.
Then again, your recipe doesn't reproduce your property number profile, it seems like you're concealing some oil from us.

 

[gww]

I have some bees wax and have yet to find a use for it that interest me. Seemed a little complicated to add to soap to gain any property I thought would make it worth it. Temp sensitive? I did wax a cross bow string and that is it so far. I do my best to use with out shopping rather then go for perfection.
ResolvableOwl
I am a dummy and so ask what your post means? Are you indicating you can go -7 with a recipe of bees wax and get something good or are you pointing out folly. I am still too new to read between the lines.
Thanks
gww

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I've put @kdm's oil amounts into a soap calculator, and found that they consume less lye than he has written in his recipe. I. e. the soap will be lye-heavy. Even the most generous SF setting, 0%, can rasie NaOH demand to no more than 6.3 g less than actually added. OR he has forgotten to include some oil ingredient.

I don't recognise the tick with a line through it. Is that Greek?

It's the correction mark with which we were taught in school that something was missing. Dunno if the Greeks have the same symbol.
Obviously, this is not an inter-cultural constant. TIL.

 

[gww]

ResolvableOwl
Thank you.
gww

 

[kdm]

Then again, your recipe doesn't reproduce your property number profile, it seems like you're concealing some oil from us.

Nothing to learn from hiding oil! I don't understand SF. I think you're saying the beeswax doesn't do much to enhance for the soap, but it does absorb some of the lye?
Once I added the lavender oil, I didn't notice any change in the required amount of lye. Is that normal? Surely extra oil should cause a little increase in lye?
I'm sure I'm not using the calculator properly!

OR he has forgotten to include some oil ingredient.

I have a feeling I calculated the lye before I added the lavender. Did you happen to save the input / output from your soap calculator?

Obviously, this is not an inter-cultural constant. TIL.

It bloody well should be ... it's missing from common soap parlance.

 

[AliOop]

EOs don't saponify in any meaningful amount, so they don't go into that section of the calculator; they belong in the fragrance section.

Beeswax will harden the bar; most use it around 1-2% max. You are at almost 4% so that's going to speed up trace and make for a pretty hard bar. It also dampens lather a bit. Less is more when it comes to beeswax in soap.

Now to the more important stuff: I agree with Owl that you are at almost a -7% SF. That's a very lye-heavy soap. You will want to rebatch it with more oils. Search "oven rebatch" and give it a try so you can lay claim to going through a standard soaper's rite of passage (up there with meat soap, glycerin rivers, ash, and good ole plop, glop, and smash soap).

 

[kdm]

I'm going to start again. Here's what I ACTUALLY made:
Beeswax 20g
Castor Oil 50g
Coconut Oil, 150g
Lard, Pig 250g
Olive Oil 100g

3% SF (I don't understand this setting - HELP!)
3% fragrance

Total Water Weight 216.6 grams
Total NaOH Weight 81.5 grams

How I missed out the Castor Oil... since that was the key thing I was playing with... :-(

Sorry. Thanks. No need for postcards this time....

Beeswax will harden the bar; most use it around 1-2% max. You are at almost 4% so that's going to speed up trace and make for a pretty hard bar. It also dampens lather a bit. Less is more when it comes to beeswax in soap.

Well, that's not helping with the fact that it's definitely thickening too quickly for me!

(up there with meat soap, glycerin rivers, ash, and good ole plop, glop, and smash soap).

Woow. Rewind. Did you say glycerin? I have gallons of that. Can I put it in soap?

I will look up rebatch: I know I had about 4 times too much NaOH in my first ever batch and I never threy it out!!

 

[AliOop]

You can put glycerin in soap, but handmade CP has enough glycerin of its own most of the time. I wouldn't add more to CP, or only very small amounts, since it can make the bars too sticky and sweaty.

The term "glycerin rivers" is a soaping misnomer for a certain visual effect, usually caused a combination of TD + high water (low lye concentration). You can see lots of pictures on this forum if you google the term. It's something that certain folks (cough, @KiwiMoose love and encourage), and one that others (@Zing) try to avoid. Beauty is in the eye, etc. etc.

Back to your beeswax, yes, it probably contributed significantly to your fast thickening, either because your batch was hot to keep the beeswax melted (and heat causes fast trace), or because the beeswax started to cool and gave you false trace. Add in lots o' stickblending and bam, there's your pudding. Or brownie batter.

Back to glycerin, there is supposed to be a world-wide shortage soon, or even now (I have lots so not paying attention to availability). You can use yours to make liquid soap (search for @IrishLass' glycerine liquid soap tutorial) or melt-and-pour soap, or other lovely things.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I'm going to start again. Here's what I ACTUALLY made:
Beeswax 20g
Castor Oil 50g
Coconut Oil, 150g
Lard, Pig 250g
Olive Oil 100g

3% SF (I don't understand this setting - HELP!)

OK. Now we're talking. That's a proper recipe to work with, and the SF setting makes sense (is in the positive single-digit region).

SF is something you can wish for, it's a free parameter of the soap recipe.

Some fixed amount of oil does consume some fixed amount of lye to completely convert to soap. Some clever soapmaker ancestors have found out that, for several reasons, it's good to not let this reaction go to completion, but omit a few % of the lye – makes a milder, less stripping soap. This is lye discount. Some of the oils aren't fully broken down into soap.

Now, some other clever ancestors have recognised that this is (maths wise) equivalent to adding more oils in the beginning, and called it “superfat”, which sounds more positive and luxurious than thrifty “lye discount”.

But it's the very same thing: add more oils to the batch than necessary, or equivalently, leave out some of the lye.

This is what soap calculators do with the SF tuning knob. Your oil blend would consume 84.1 g of NaOH for full saponification, but you're adding only 81.5 g – 3% too little = 3% “superfat”. The internal logic has discounted these 3% automatically.

When you are in an interactive calculator, you can tune the %SF setting, and watch how the needed NaOH weight is going up and down.

 

[earlene]

@kdm, just to clarify neither Essential oils nor Fragrance Oils affect the amount of lye soap requires to saponify. Neither EO's nor FO's have any effect on SuperFat.

I don't understand SF.

3% SF (I don't understand this setting - HELP!)

A bit more on SuperFat, if it helps.

Super Fat means more fat than the amount of lye used in the formula to make the soap. SF is excess oil in soap after saponification occurs.
By setting the calculator to 3% SF, that means your soap will have an excess of fat at the rate of 3% of total oils in your formula (IF your calculator's SAP numbers are correct for the oils you actually use, which is possible, but not necessarily 100% guaranteed due to variables with crops that become the oils.)

As a point of interest regarding superfat: A minor lye heavy soap will eventually loose that excess lye via the interaction of the NaOH (sodium hydroxide) molecules with oxygen as the soap cures. The excess lye becomes Sodium Carbonate which is what is in washing soda. It will form on the surface of the soap as it cures and we call it soda ash when it forms on the surface of soap. It is harmless on the surface of the soap and will wash off with use. It does, however, mute the colors & designs on the surface of the soap, so some soapers remove the ash using methods you can read about in this link.

Woow. Rewind. Did you say glycerin? I have gallons of that. Can I put it in soap?

Be careful adding glycerine to bar soap, as too much will make rubbery soap, and unfortunately it does not evaporate out like too much water does. As a humectant, it just draws moisture to the bar.
You can use glucerin for mixing colorants, but when you do, use it sparingly (for the above reason). I speak from experience.

Out of curiosity, why do you have gallons of glycerine? If there is going to be a shortage, you may end up being in good shape if you want to make glycerine soap. (Melt & Pour glycerine soap from scratch, or Liquid Glycerine soap).

 

[kdm]

Out of curiosity, why do you have gallons of glycerine? If there is going to be a shortage, you may end up being in good shape if you want to make glycerine soap. (Melt & Pour glycerine soap from scratch, or Liquid Glycerine soap).

OKay. Busted exaggerating. I have one gallon. It has a number of uses: it was supposed to be a thickener in some hand gel I was making when the pandemic kicked off, but I found I had to add much more than the recipe suggested and the end result was sticky and ineffective as a hand sanitiser. Then I tried to use it as a thickener / sweetener in liqueurs. It tastes <expletive>ing awful.