What soapy thing have you done today?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by FlybyStardancer, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. Apr 10, 2019 #11,201

    Meena

    Meena

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    Forgive me if this has already been said, @Rune but this is my suggestion. I would remove everything from your soap recipes except oils, water, lye, and colorants. Work with the basic ingredients until you determine either what is causing your soap to over thicken, or you develop a recipe that behaves correctly . Once you have achieved a recipe that is slower, add your other things back one at a time and observe the effect.

    I don't suggest changing what you call fully hydrogenated coconut (its natural state) for the liquid coconut oil 92 because it is not as good in soap as the 78 degree.

    There is nothing wrong with unscented soap, either, so I would save scent experiments for the very last, after you have tested each other additive, after finding a slow or slower recipe.

    Good luck , friend!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  2. Apr 10, 2019 #11,202

    amd

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    Well, school has been bumped to an early dismissal due to snow. I already put in for the afternoon off work and all day tomorrow. The Diva 'snapped' me from school asking if we can do embeds when we get home. Because I have nothing to do, I went ahead and made my 'All Things Soapy' to do list. I have some non-soap things on the list, like doing bookwork, taking photos and creating listings, but mostly it is making soap and lip balms! Right after I get the kids picked up and grocery run done, of course. I'm not thrilled about two feet of snow in April, but at least I can use it to my advantage. My apologies to the house cleaning, you're still not getting done this week... :p
     
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  3. Apr 10, 2019 #11,203

    Rune

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    Thank you @Meena, for really good advice :) I will try to follow them as good as I can.

    I have no idea what my coconut is, really, but the manufacturer call it fully hydrogenated or fully hardened (which I think is the same). It is so hard that when stored in the fridge it can't be cut with anything, not even a sharp knife. I have to melt it down first.

    I was trying to find the melting point of my coconut oils by looking after the MSDS documentation. I didn't find that, but I discovered something really, really horrible!!! They have changed the ingredients in my vegetable lard! I used that one in my two last soaps, and did not read the label, since I knew what it contained. Before that, I think I read the label. Hopefully I did. I have no idea when the new recipe came.

    So, I might have had an old package with the old ingredients, or I have made soap with totally different fats than I thought. I just hope they are not lye heavy or anything. I have zap-tested, but I'm not sure how the zap should feel. I will do the phenolphtalein drops tomorrow. My second last soap was not so hard as I thought it would be. It became hard from vinegar, but not as I supposed it to be. I don't know how to explain. The outer package is in the garbage long ago, so I can't find out other than go back to the store and read labels of what they have left, and ask when they had supplies last.

    So, the thing is that I thought my vegetable lard had three ingredients in falling order: Shea, coconut and rapeseed oil. But now I discovered that they have changed it to this: Rapeseed oil, coconut oil, fully hardened rapeseed oil, shea.

    Full of rapeseed instead of shea, yes nice! Maybe I had old packages since my soaps accellerates so much, and shea is said to do that. But I can't use this oil blend in the future, and have to find something else. I will immediately order some soy wax and try that as a replacer. And drive to an immigrant shop to buy some vegetable ghee, which is palm oil with carotene color and perhaps flavor (I will have to find one without flavor).

    So I guess my recipe will have to change anyway. But I'm really angry they did this with the wonderful vegetable lard. Even though my recipe have to change, I could still use it. Too bad. I wish I had Essential Depot or what you have just a click away.

    @amd You can buy some fiber reactive dyes, some soda ash, some cotton t-shirts or some cotton fabric, collect snow and do some snow dyeing!

    I'm not the right person to suggest such things since I'm suggesting what I have been thinking of doing in a long time, but never done. And I have more than enough ingredients for it. Plus lots of snow outside.
     
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  4. Apr 10, 2019 #11,204

    SeattleMartin

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    This morning I tested shave soap that I made yesterday. This was my third attempt at both shaving soap and hot process. I think I am finally on to something good. The lather stood for over 20 minutes :)
     

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  5. Apr 10, 2019 #11,205

    Rune

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    They said something very interesting on the TV just now. I had to jump up and listen. Some young people from the northermost of this country made soap, and they used reindeer fat!

    Reindeer fat, wow! What a coincidence, just when I'm looking for other fats to replace my vegetable lard. Of course I easily can get reindeer fat here. My neighbour can most probably get it for me, since he occationally work with reindeer farmin (he is one of the sami indigenous people). I have never thought of that fat at all, and I would never had if it wasn't for the TV.

    I am about 30% or so of sami origin. So I do like everything from the sami culture. And reindeer is the most sami one can imagine.

    And, the farming of reindeer is eco, cruelty-free, they are free-roaming and not medicated in any way. I can't think of anything more sustainable than reindeer farming. They are treated very well. No farmed animals have it better than the reindeers of the sami people, I'm quite sure about that.

    The negative is that reindeer fat might have a smell to it. I don't know before I try. So we'll see.
     
  6. Apr 10, 2019 #11,206

    SeattleMartin

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    If I get around to trying the deer tallow I rendered before you get reindeer fat, I will let you know how this stuff works out.
     
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  7. Apr 10, 2019 #11,207

    Zany_in_CO

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    Um, I started soaping cuz it keeps me sane and it's cheaper than therapy. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Apr 11, 2019 #11,208

    Rune

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    Yes, please do @SeattleMartin :) I just now wrote a message on Facebook to my neighbour, asking for reindeer tallow. Yes, I guess tallow is the right word, and not fat. It is nothing less confusing in norwegian than english, we have smult, ister, spekk, talg and probably even more, and I don't know the difference between them :D
     
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  9. Apr 11, 2019 #11,209

    Marilyn Norgart

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    you pull the rings out before it starts to harden--I watched a video on this and wanna try it
     
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  10. Apr 11, 2019 #11,210

    Meena

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    In English, the fat of all animals except pig/hog/porcine is called tallow, whereas pig fat is called lard.

    Reindeer is not listed in SoapCalc, and I could not find an SAP value on line (although I only spent a minute looking). Reindeer are not so common; not many countries are blessed to have these elegant animals. :cool: However, I'm "fairly sure" that you could use the SAP value for "plain" deer tallow and be close enough. I don't think you need to wait to hear how Seattle's soap turns out. If it were me, I would go ahead with the deer tallow setting on the lye calculator you use.

    As for concerns about any smell, first make sure it has been cleaned very well. This issue comes up with lard, that some can smell it in the cured soap and others cannot. There is a great variety of noses and senses of smell. These smells can be masked with a complementary scent -- something that would combine well with an animal-type odor and overtake it (a cedar or pine, etc., for example) rather than contrast and "sit on top of it" (like a floral, for example) -- but the first line of defense is to start with a very clean tallow. I will tell you that I cannot smell the organic beef tallow that I use, even before my soap has cured. Lastly, this is an issue that is more likely to arise in an 80 - 100% animal soap, so I don't think you will have any smell problem at, say, 40% or less.

    Since you do not have the exact SAP value yet, I would superfat between 4 and 5% to allow for any possible difference, which should be plenty enough to ensure your soap is not lye heavy. Conversely, the other possibility is that the final SF will be above the 4-5% you set it to be, but that will not be a problem... A little wasteful, only, but eventually you might be able to find a direct SAP value for reindeer tallow and clear that up.

    Zap doesn't so much taste as feel. Have you ever put your tongue on the terminal of a 9V battery? It is a shocky feeling, much like the word zap itself. :) Those strips are said to not be reliable for soap. If you buy some, there is a specific procedure for using them for lye-testing soap. You could search for it on this forum, as I don't recall all of the steps. Most people say the zap test is preferable to the strips.

    I hope this helps!

    Just to throw a wrench in the works, Kaolin clay does not have that effect for me. ;) Maybe it depends on the color, though. The green and pink clays (there is another, also) absorb more oil on the skin, which is why I use the white kaolin, and perhaps would have a small effect in the soap batter also. The white is the least oil-absorbing on the skin. However, at the usage rate of the clays in the soap batter, I wouldn't expect it to cause the level of thickening you're experiencing. My theory is that some of your additives are compounding each other by duplicating affects, which is why I suggested scrapping them all and adding back one at a time until you identify your culprit. ;)

    I am lazy tonight about looking things up; and short of time, as well. HTH
     
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  11. Apr 11, 2019 #11,211

    Rune

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    Thank you @Meena :) for all the great advices. And yes, it helps a lot!

    Okey, now I understand, lard from pig and the rest is tallow. Very easy.

    I have watched videos on Youtube about rendering lard. To get a non-smelly and snow white color, it had to be rendered at a very low temperature. I guess the same applies for tallow, so that is what I will do. Plus clean it very well, as you say.

    I did notice something strange, and that has to be masking vs sit-on-top-of-it scents. I can smell a soapy smell from most of my soaps. But not from one of them. Not at all, only the scent itself. And that scent is very different from the others, it is called Moroccan Escape and is from Eroma in Australia. It was a horrible smell at first, very overpowering and yes, horrible. But it changed dramatically by curing. Now it is just wonderful. The thing is that it has a fresh type of note in there, which was way too strong in the beginning. It is eucalyptus. And that eucalyptus mask the scent of soap.

    My other soaps have more mild and not sharp scents, except from a horrible floral scented soap I have. But they do smell strongly of soap. Not masked at all.

    I have a big bottle of Moroccan Escape, since I bought it on sale (it was discontinued). Now I have learned that the soap needs a long cure and it will change from upright horrible to really wonderful, and mask things completely. So that is the one I will use if I can detect a smell from the tallow after the soap has cured. So I guess I will have to test first with a sit-on-top scent. I think I have some other masking type of scents. If not I can find a use for my cedarwood essential oil. Mix it in with a fragrance or use it alone.

    Okey, then I have not have any zap from my zap tests yet. I have those strips, but they are impossible to use. I have the most simple type. I guess you can buy better ones. I have heard it must be measured in an aquaous solution, 50/50 soap and water. I have not really used them for soap, but only used them when I made sodium citrate from citric acid and baking soda. I could not see if the solution was neutral or not, so my strips are not good at all. To be honest, most of times I have just started to use soap without testing it. Just thought, if it is lye heavy, then I will notice if I get dry hands. Sometimes I have done zap-testing just out of curiousity after I have used the soaps. But no zapping, no.

    I can perhaps find the sap value of reindeer tallow somewhere. They do research all sorts of things here all the time. So I might find it from a science report or anything. If not, I will use deer tallow and 4-5% superfat.

    Thank you again :)

    Maybe the kaolin clay (i use ordinary white kaolin) kan have different effects in soap all depending on where you add it? If you add it to the oils, the clay will soak oil. Add it to the lye solution, and it will soak caustic water. Add it to the fragrance oil, and it will soak fragrance oil (which I understand is not really oil, like ordinary oil).

    The clay can be saturated with 3 different fluids. When it is saturated in one thing, it can't soak anymore. A wet clay can't soak oil. So perhaps kaolin added to lye solution can thicken soap, while it doesn't if added to the oils, or the opposite? Who knows? I definately don't know. But it might have an effect, or not.
     
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  12. Apr 11, 2019 #11,212

    Meena

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    @Rune, If I recall, I added my white kaolin at trace. When I used Rhassoul clay, I also added at trace. I don't recall noticing any change to the thickness or speed of my batter from either clay, but those batches may all have been HP, which has 38 to 42% water.

    Bingo, Rune - Have you tried soaping with a higher water %? The cure will take a bit longer, but it helps fluidity a lot. You can accomplish higher water by setting your lye concentration to be 28 to 30%, no higher. You will have a greater chance of getting gel at that percent range, also.

    I'll have to CP with the white kaolin, one of these days.
     
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  13. Apr 11, 2019 #11,213

    SeattleMartin

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    Well it was just fat when I got it, I had to make tallow from it. (Tallow and lard are what is rendered from the fat.) And then you have suet, and,.... You're right, it is confusing and as far as I care you can just say fat and it will always be correct ;) Incidentally, I have friends in Norway, Sweden and Netherlands. We sometimes love to compare notes on how difficult language is :D
    Looks like Meena has some great tips there. I was planning to use some earthy fragrances to help cover the scent of the deer tallow. We cleaned it up as best as possible but it still has a bit of an odor (I actually have a pretty sensitive nose myself) that I can only describe as "gamey." If you're familiar with wild game, you know that smell. I grew up around hunters so I'm somewhat accustomed to it.

    As for soapy things today... here is a picture of laundry soap (100% CO, 0.5% SF) that went volcanic. It was a pretty minor eruption, I would say. We made this batch last night, our first time doing it in our 2lb loaf mold. I only made it once before and molded it in small thin cardboard boxes lined with plastic. I think I will use small molds again next time. soapVolcano.jpg
     
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  14. Apr 11, 2019 #11,214

    Hils67

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    I actually left out the FO for the yellow and red, as I thought it might discolour...so next time I thought if I coloured my main batch (with the DB in) brown and left the DB out of the swirling colours then I should end up with the same-ish colour as the first cut and cured bar. Ie work with the brown tinge rather than against it.

    This is how it looks right now ...a bit blotchy, still smells gorgeous though :nodding:
     
  15. Apr 12, 2019 #11,215

    Dawni

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    @Rune and @Meena.. I added white kaolin clay at emulsion both times I tried it in CP.

    I had other colors and the white (and incidentally also the black) became much thicker than the other colors faster, even when I mixed by hand.

    Soapy thing:
    Soy wax experiment going on right now!
     
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  16. Apr 12, 2019 #11,216

    earlene

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    I am not DWMadison, but here's what you do with that sort of set up:
    Pour different colors (or different ITP's or whatever design one chooses) into different sized circles. While the soap is still wet, one carefully removes the circles, doing best not to disrupt the design. Leave the soap to saponify and the result maintains the design. Here is one example of a soap using such a method: https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/rainbow-cold-process/

    Here's another one by Auntie Clara: https://auntieclaras.com/2014/08/intentional-crop-circles-water-discount-as-a-design-tool/
     
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  17. Apr 12, 2019 #11,217

    Rune

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    @Meena, I have tried both high and low water. High water and I got glycerin rivers. Low water, well, I did that because it has some advantages. You will minimize the risk of glycerin rivers, and it is said to slow trace, and less water to evaporate later. Some say the opposite, water reductions means rapid thickening and more water means more fluidity. I don't know, I have found that my soap thickened just as bad with lots of water than with like 40% lye solution. Did not slow anything, and did not speed more than it already did in the first place.

    Now I will have a new recipe, and I will try both high and low water to see the effect, and also kaolin added both to oils or at trace, to see what happens. I don't want to add it to the lye solution. I really like to add as much as possible to the oils or the water for the lye solution, so that I can prepare almost everything upfront. I'm afraid of forgetting to add this and that if I have to add it at trace. So I normally avoid that.
     
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  18. Apr 12, 2019 #11,218

    Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi

    Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi

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    Is it ok.to.use Clay's to colour soap dought.....I ain't a mica fan at allll
     
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  19. Apr 12, 2019 #11,219

    Rune

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    @SeattleMartin Yes, I know the gamey smell. It is not necessary unpleasant at all. But I'm not so sure if I want too much of it in soap. I think there must be a way to refine and deodorize the tallow. I will investigate and see if I can find something clever. I know from Youtube it must be rendered at a very low temperature to minimize smell. And the best is to grind it up first, then the rendering will go quicker, and I think it will minimize smell as well. I think I will use the crockpot, just because it is easy and low-temp.

    I will let you know if I find and easy refining process.
     
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  20. Apr 12, 2019 #11,220

    Rune

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    @SeattleMartin I found this from @IrishLass :
     

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