What makes lard trace slow?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by szaza, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. Oct 10, 2019 #21

    Ladka

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    In fact I'm not sure how fast/slow sheep tallow is to trace cause I've always used only half or less of the entire mass of oils.
     
  2. Oct 10, 2019 #22

    Mobjack Bay

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    A search on “fat composition of edible food oils” or similar in Google, turns up graphs like the one below. Compared with post 4 there seem to be similar trends relative to how the animal fats trace.

    91A40F46-67B7-40B2-A849-9B3C242B7497.jpeg
     
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  3. Oct 18, 2019 #23

    szaza

    szaza

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    I feel I've been a bit all over the place in this thread so I'll try to be a bit more structured from now on. There are so many things I want to understand that I've been losing oversight. Thanks for bearing with me..
    (This thread turned out to be longer than expected, so I marked the less important/easy to skip sections)

    @Mobjack Bay the article you linked to is so super informative, I should really have started reading it sooner. Working on that now;) thanks for sharing it!

    After doing some more research I found out that refined oils have less Free Fatty Acids than unrefined oils. This means FFA's could still play a role in slowing/accelerating trace considering unrefined oils seem to trace faster. I'm working on an experiment where I'm comparing trace of refined vs unrefined cocoa butter at 25% in identical recipes.
    Raw/unrefined CB traced at a reasonable pace. While stick blending in several second pulses with hand stirring in between it took 6mins to go from barely noticable trace to thick trace. I'll repeat the same recipe with refined CB when I'm back home from my trip.

    At the moment I have 3 main hypotheses for why lard traces so exceptionally slow.

    1. Free fatty acid content could be lower in lard. I'm still looking for a way to test this. Any help/tips are welcome!
    I know there are tests for FFA content of oils, because it's used as a test for oil freshness in the food industry. Unfortunately, all the tests I find are industrial (and too expensive)
    I looked further and found a test that shows whether carboxylic acids are present in a substance using sodium bicarbonate (when carboxylic acids are present, carbom dioxide is formed and it starts to bubble). That just doesn't seem like a very precise approach. It doesn't reliably tell how much and what kind of carboxylic acids are present.


    2. Maybe there are different FA's at play that I haven't included in my calculations. I based my lard replacement recipe on the fatty acid profiles on soapcalc, which I recently found out are not complete. Is there a good database with a complete listing of all fatty acids of different oils? Or do I just have to google each one separately?

    3. There could be a catalyst in the unsaponifiable matter. I really hope this is not the case and I'm going to explore the other 2 hypotheses first, because finding which tiny fraction of the unsaponifiables is the catalyst is going to be a rather tedious job.
     
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  4. Oct 18, 2019 #24

    BattleGnome

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    Sounds like a solid direction. Keep us updated
     
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  5. Oct 19, 2019 #25

    Mobjack Bay

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    I came across a research paper that might be useful. The results show that lard and chicken fat can be differentiated from beef and mutton fat (tallows) on the basis of their triacylglycerol structure and composition. (triacylglycerols or TAGs were formerly know as triglycerides) If I had read it before, I did not remember that the three fatty acids on a single TAG can be different. For example, one TAG can have two oleics and one palmitic (POO), while another can have one palmitic, one oleic and one linoleic (POL), etc. Apparently, lard has relatively more TAGS with oleic acid in the outside positions, denoted POO, PPO) on the glycerol backbone, while the tallows are distinguished by TAGS that have oleic acid in the middle position (denoted SOS, POS). The tallows also have relatively more TAGS where all three fatty acids are saturated, for example PPS or PSS.

    As I understand it, pure fatty acids trace faster because they’re not attached to the glycerol backbone. Perhaps the structural arrangement of fatty acids on the TAG can also affect speed of trace.

    Here’s the link: http://www.ifrj.upm.edu.my/19 (02) 2012/(14)IFRJ-2012 Rohman.pdf
     
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  6. Oct 19, 2019 #26

    szaza

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    Wow I would never have thought about that, but that could indeed be an influence. I'll read the paper, thanks!!
     
  7. Oct 19, 2019 #27

    Mobjack Bay

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    I ended up finding that article because I was trying to understand something I kept reading on baking blogs. Apparently, lard forms unusually large fat crystals, which is what leads to flaky pastry. Somehow that got me to TAG structure.

    Also, I forgot that I also found this article on the FA and TAG composition of Palm oil.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profil...sation-A-Review.pdf?origin=publication_detail
     
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  8. Oct 19, 2019 #28

    szaza

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    Haha @Mobjack Bay it's going to take me a while to get through all that reading;) but thanks for sharing, it's super interesting!!
     
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  9. Nov 15, 2019 #29

    Mobjack Bay

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    Are you still working on this? I just found this statement in another research paper while I was looking for information on how fats crystallize:

    “Lard is unique among other fats, because the saturated fatty acids are preferentially located in the sn-2 position [middle of the TAG] whereas the unsaturated fatty acids are mostly located on the external positions.”

    I could only get to the source through the university library. Here’s a screen shot of the abstract:

    90039C94-876C-4FE3-90E7-E5BC5B6EC8D5.png

    I can send it to you if you want to read it :eek:.
     
  10. Nov 15, 2019 #30

    szaza

    szaza

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    Thanks @Mobjack Bay ! I'm definitely still working on this. I'm a slow reader and I went on a trip which slowed things down even more, but I haven't forgotten about this!
    Thanks for the article, it would be awesome if you could send me the article:thumbs:
     

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