What is your lye mixing container made out of?

[dirrdee]

It was a major bummer, and we did throw out most of the food but at least no one was injured... My poor DIL felt terrible, but very important lesson learned for everyone!

Just think if there was lye in it? Dont do it please!

 

[CamillaHB]

Just be careful about the stove vent - the "filters" are often aluminum and the fumes are caustic, so with enough exposure...

I was wondering about that one. Good to know. Thanks!

On the other hand, I think mine has a nice, thick protective layer of grease

 

[Seventeen Soaps]

Wonderful insight thank you! I have been using the same Pyrex jug since I started making soap which makes it 13 yrs old. I only use it now for my smaller trial batches and had no idea they were a heat danger... looks like I will need a new jug although mine clearly states microwave safe :/ For my larger batches I use either a plastic jug or a large plastic container.

 

[carebear]

microwave safe is not relevant. it's not just about the heat.
pyrex just isn't safe for a lye solution. period.

i'm glad you will get a new container. even tho it's worked for you thus far, it might shatter tomorrow. in the risk vs reward calculation, finding a new jug isn't much.

 

[carebear]

On the other hand, I think mine has a nice, thick protective layer of grease

 

[Guest]

Is it safe to mix lye in glass? Yes, it is, but there are a boatload of caveats and limitations that go along with that. A lot of the complaints of exploding Pyrex are the result of misuse of the glassware. Pyrex in any form is not indestructible, and most people don't read the safety warnings that come with their measuring cup. There are some things that you simply should not do to Pyrex, like cooling it rapidly. But to add to that problem, Pyrex is a brand, not a material, and the materials used to make Pyrex differ.

The Pyrex kitchenware brand was divested by Corning to World Kitchen back in 1998. Up until that time, Corning was producing it's Pyrex branded kitchenware out of both borosilicate and tempered soda lime glass. Two different materials with two different set of properties.

http://www.udel.edu/chem/GlassShop/PhysicalProperties.htm

Since World Kitchen took over production of Pyrex branded consumer products, all Pyrex kitchenware is made with tempered soda lime glass. It is possible that the Pyrex measuring cup that you bought in 1975 is soda lime glass, too. Whether World Kitchen's manufacturing standards are the same as Corning's were, well, we don't know.

Corning continues to make Pyrex labware from borosilicate.

IMHO, when manufactured correctly, and when used properly (including throwing it out when it becomes scratched or otherwise compromised), both are safe for mixing lye. When I worked in a lab, we mixed strongly alkaline solutions in Pyrex labware all the time, without incident. I have used soda lime for mixing lye for many years, no problem.
(Glass of any kind is NOT suitable for the long-term storage of alkaline solutions.)

But that is a lot of "ifs" to contend with. When there are much more reliable materials, like SS and appropriate plastics, available for mixing and storing lye, why not use them?

There are two possibilities that I see for why we are hearing a lot of complaints about exploding Pyrex kitchenware. First, the rise in complaints mirrors the rise of the internet, so, whether they are justified or not, we all hear about problems with Pyrex. Second, there might be a real problem with the "new" Pyrex kitchenware. Or, it's a combination of the two. I will end by saying that the CPSC has not found fault with World Kitchen's products. I'm not sure what that means, as the CPSC is a political agency, and works in the best interest of the government, not the consumer. And I doubt that the CPSC tests Pyrex for safety in mixing lye.

Here are a couple of good online references for Pyrex, both the kitchen stuff and labware:

Wikipedia on Pyrex: Seems mostly accurate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrex

Anchor-Hocking Q&A on their soda lime glass products
http://www.anchorhocking.com/Bakeware_Facts.html

Snopes runs down the soda lime/borosilicate controversy
http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

Corning's borosilicate Pyrex lab glass safety info:
http://catalog2.corning.com/lifesciences/media/pdf/glass_care_safe_handling_RG_CI_101_REV1.pdf

 

[carebear]

No, it is not safe to mix lye in glass. Pyrex or otherwise. Those "caveats" are the reality and not the exception.

Don't do it. Don't say it's safe. It isn't.

 

[agriffin]

No, it is not safe to mix lye in glass. Pyrex or otherwise. Those "caveats" are the reality and not the exception.

Don't do it. Don't say it's safe. It isn't.

I absolutely agree with this.

 

[Guest]

"Safe" is a relative term. To make a blanket statement that Pyrex is not safe for mixing lye is incorrect. Pyrex borosilicate is absolutely safe for mixing lye, within the limits of the material's abilities. Pyrex soda lime glass is also safe, but it is more prone to etching from alkali than it's borosilicate cousin. Etched glass should never be used.

All materials have their limitations, and if you work within those limitations, the chances of failure are greatly minimized. Know the materials that you are working with.

Are there better choices than glass (of any kind) for mixing caustics? Yes, you bet there are, and I said so, very clearly. Stainless steel or an appropriate plastic are much better, and safer choices for mixing lye.

There are a lot of dangers in the world, and we should be aware of them, but not ignorant of them.

 

[carebear]

No, it is not safe to mix lye in glass. Pyrex or otherwise. Those "caveats" are the reality and not the exception.

Don't do it. Don't say it's safe. It isn't.

 

[debbism]

Just be careful about the stove vent - the "filters" are often aluminum and the fumes are caustic, so with enough exposure...

THIS!! I remove these for soap making. Mine pop out easily.

 

[Guest]

Just be careful about the stove vent - the "filters" are often aluminum and the fumes are caustic, so with enough exposure...

THIS!! I remove these for soap making. Mine pop out easily.

Good advice. Take a look at an old chem lab and you'll see that the fixtures are corroded. If you can, measure NaOH and mix lye outdoors, let it react and dissolve before bringing it inside.

 

[Genny]

There are a lot of dangers in the world, and we should be aware of them, but not ignorant of them.

But the problem with saying that it can be safe on a forum is that a newbie to cp will see it, not read any further because they got the info they were looking for, and then use the glass.
Do we want to be partialy responsible for someone getting seriously injured? Not really.

 

[Hazel]

"Safe" is not a relative term. Either it is safe or it isn't. There isn't an in between or maybe about being safe.

I don't understand why you keep pushing this "Pyrex is safe issue" when you know there are safe alternatives. Even after people have posted about Pyrex shattering and exploding, you still talk about being aware of dangers and not ignorant of them. Have you even read current and older posts by members who have experienced Pyrex shattering and have warned people not to use it?

Why would you even take the risk? In my opinion, to know there is even a minute possibilty of Pyrex shattering and still use it is ignorant.

Genny brought up a very good point. We don't want a person new to soapmaking to think it's all right to use glass/Pyrex and possibly get injured.

I'm ending this post by quoting SMF's Site Admin because I'm tired of people's careless attitude towards safety.

The SMF's definition of an internet troll:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupting normal discussion."-WIKI

The SMF has zero tolerance for trolling. If we determine you are attempting to provoke or disrupt this forum or if your posts have an inflammatory feel to them your account will be deleted an your IP will be banned.

We don't play that way here.

 

[IrishLass]

Woodsroad- please remember the audience to which you are addressing here. We are handmade soapmakers working out of our limited budgets in our home kitchens- not grad students or professional chemists working in chemistry labs with access to certified (and paid for) lab equipment.

To recommend that glass is relatively safe for mixing lye solution is the same to me as saying playing Russian Roulette is relatively safe........yeah, it's relatively safe for a certain amount clicks of the trigger, but once the chamber with the bullet in it finally comes 'round, it's not so safe anymore, is it? It's the same with glass and lye. Strong alkaline solutions etch glass over time- even borosilicate. Sure, it's safe for a certain amount of lye solution batches, but how many? Do you know? And if so, are you willing to guarantee that? I'm sure the answer to those questions is no. Too many soapers I know have reported their tempered glass containers (either Pyrex or Anchor-Hocking) shattering and sending shards of glass and lye solution all over their kitchens and persons after having used it 'relatively safely' without incident for a time. Our #1 concern is safe soaping here and we feel it would be negligent on our part to advocate or promote the use of a product that has proven dangerously unreliable. I hope you can see our point of view and understand why we are very firm on our stance.

Here are two excellent links to read:

http://events.nace.org/library/corrosio ... /Glass.asp


http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/maga ... /index.htm


IrishLass

 

[Guest]

Here are two excellent links to read:

http://events.nace.org/library/corrosio ... /Glass.asp


http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/maga ... /index.htm


IrishLass

Very good information, thank you!

 

[Kleine Teufel]

I've been using the same glass wine bottle (open mouth) for over two years for mixing my lye. I've been doing it out of sheer laziness and basically arrogance (it won't happen to me kind of mind-frame). I finally, finally bought several 2qt bottles (wide mouth of course) of tea (forget the brand name) so that I can demolish the tea (we drink a lot of tea) and use the plastic containers to mix the lye. Not only will I now have a safer means of mixing my lye, but I'll also have SIX containers to mix lye in, instead of one. I'm stoked!

ETA: I'm absolutely not condoning glassware use for lye. Just adding my two cents as to how much of an idiot I am. At any point in time that glass could have been bumped and shattered everywhere. With the heat extremes and etching of the glass, I'm just about positive it would have happened at some point in time and it's basically sheer luck that it hadn't happened already.

*Is it bad that soaping is so addictive that you make beverage choices based on container suitability to lye?!*

 

[busymakinsoap!]

I have had a pyrex jug explode, luckly I wasnt mixing lye, but melting oils in a double burner.
The jug didnt just crack or break, it does actually explodes, like everywhere. I was finding glass for days and contaminated all of my product. Imagine the damage if lye were involved.


I use stainless steel for my lye mix.

 

[Hazel]

Thanks for sharing, ladies!

busymakinsoap -

You were still lucky you weren't hurt. If the oils had been hot, you could have gotten some bad burns.

 

[wendenney]

I chose to use an old coffee carafe I had from a coffeemaker I no longer use figuring they were made to withstand hot temperatures for sitting on a hot plate for hours on end.