What is wrong with this shaving set up?

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lillybella

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Does anyone see anything wrong in this shaving set up (image below)?

This is what the man did:

Lather at start: Here is the brush after I've churned it around in the soap jar to load it up.

Lather in scuttle: Here's the brush after going around in the scuttle for about 30-45 seconds.

I lather up with a first application and then strop the blade, (30 on canvas, 60 on leather), which takes about a minute or minute and a half at most. This first application goes on pretty thick, and the shaving cream is good at this point. Once the stropping is done, I wash off that lather with water as hot as I can stand it (pretty hot).

shaving set up.jpg


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My dad always left the soap in the pot and re applied the lathered up soap once in a while.
 
Is it the set up or the lather you are asking about? I'm not quite sure why there are two bowls of water or what the sponge is for and I feel there should be more lather, it looks a bit thin.
 
I think he is using too much water & he doesn't think he should have to re-apply the lather.

Should he?

This lather looks good to me.

icm_fullxfull.57040217_63au7n4uesg0ck4wko0w.jpg
 
Do you mean fluffy? He says it works fine through the first swipe of the razor but by the 3rd swipe there isn't any lather left.
 
The lather should *I've heard* last ten minutes or so and that he leaves the soap in the pot and lathers up again if he needs too. Is he yer tester? Is he complaining?
 
I'm at a loss about a straight razor. I would think his face would be raw after 3 passes.
 
Well whilst I'm a babe in the woods with soap making I'm well schooled in traditional wetshaving.

That lather is far too thin and airy. It looks like what I'd expect to get from trying to lather with a non-shaving specific soap.

Other things which can cause the same problem is not loading the brush up with enough soap or putting too much water into your lather/brush TOO EARLY! It's important that water is added gradually and not all at once - otherwise you can ruin the lather and end up with a big bubbled, thin lather thats useless.

All this said one of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of shaving is what is a good lather - as folks will assume a BIG, Santa Claus looking one must be fantastic? But it's not.

Generally you're wanting quite a dense, creamy lather, with a good amount of slide. The user needs to hydrate it enough so that it's similar to a 'yogurt' like coating.

Perhaps he might get better results face lathering (building the lather on his face rather than in the bowl). Hope that helps - quite a few variables there so hard to ID the issue.
 
You're very welcome.

The only other thing I'd suggest is perhaps to be vigilant of the amount of water thats in the brush when you start loading it up.

It looks like you're using a Simpsons or other good quality grae of badger - and they tend to bloom and absorb a lot of water when soaked. You often will have to shake quite a lot of this out prior to loading.

Also to get the best lather possible from a given shaving soap GENERALLY tallow based soaps will need more water added as you build the lather, whereas vege oriented soaps tend to require a tad less.

Alas very much trial and error but you're always best to add less water as you build as you can always add more BUT if you dump too much in at once it can be impossible or atleast very hard to bring it back to a nice protective, slick lather. Best of luck.
 
On the other hand, as a straight razor man myself, I would say the end product is far too dry. Unless he can get through each pass quickly (out of interest, how many passes does he do?) then the soap can start to dry if it is quite dry to start off with.

What was the recipe you used for the soap?
 
On the other hand, as a straight razor man myself, I would say the end product is far too dry. Unless he can get through each pass quickly (out of interest, how many passes does he do?) then the soap can start to dry if it is quite dry to start off with.

This is where, as you'd know yourself that even the BEST shaving soap isn't going to work very well if the lather is incorrectly built - and knowing how to load and lather with the right amount of water + soap is critical.

Thats why I said there's too many variables in this at present - so you're on the right track asking for the shaving soap used or the recipe and one can ID if it's a product or user issue.
 
This is where, as you'd know yourself that even the BEST shaving soap isn't going to work very well if the lather is incorrectly built - and knowing how to load and lather with the right amount of water + soap is critical.

But *the best shaving soap* will lather more easily than compared to a lower-quality shave soap. So it should be easier to build a good lather.

For example, until recently I've always had problems with Williams ... my own soap lathers easily in comparison.

YMMV and all that.

-Dave
 
I agree that it looks to fluffy. My shave soap makes a thick creamy lather that has a good glide to it. (according to my husband). I love it for my legs but not a wet shaver pro like others.
 
But *the best shaving soap* will lather more easily than compared to a lower-quality shave soap. So it should be easier to build a good lather.

For example, until recently I've always had problems with Williams ... my own soap lathers easily in comparison.

YMMV and all that.

-Dave

With all due respect and whilst the definition of 'best' varies thats not strictly true. Quite a lot of the what are regarded as the better/top overall shaving soaps are notoriously difficult to lather.

'Ease of lathering' is only one of perhaps a half dozen specific criteria that one could scrutinize any given shaving soap over e.g quality of lather (cushion, staying power), slickness/glide, scent, moisturising/post-shave feel, scent, economy of use, price etc.

So it's erroneous to simplify matters and say that better quality shaving soaps will lather more easily than lower quality ones - otherwise Arko, Palmolive sticks, Proraso and many other pretty entry level ones would be seen as top class - when they're really just mediocre soaps that lather easily. Actually you often find that the entry/mass market stuff is very easy to lather - as the 'average joe' that uses it has neither the quality of brush, technique or patience to properly form a lather with anything more demanding - having said they trade off ease of lather for other things like the quality of lather etc.

Please don't get me wrong - none of this is meant as a slight on you - but I've around 35 artisan soaps and some of the trickiest ones to lather are up there with being the overall best.

I'm glad your own shave soap has the best of both worlds as that indicates it definitely is a superior quality soap. :)
 
With all due respect and whilst the definition of 'best' varies thats not strictly true. Quite a lot of the what are regarded as the better/top overall shaving soaps are notoriously difficult to lather.

Certainly. And many of the top soaps are easy to lather.

'Ease of lathering' is only one of perhaps a half dozen specific criteria that one could scrutinize any given shaving soap over e.g quality of lather (cushion, staying power), slickness/glide, scent, moisturising/post-shave feel, scent, economy of use, price etc.
Good points.

So it's erroneous to simplify matters and say that better quality shaving soaps will lather more easily than lower quality ones - otherwise Arko, Palmolive sticks, Proraso and many other pretty entry level ones would be seen as top class - when they're really just mediocre soaps that lather easily.
Out of curiosity, which brands do you consider "superior" ...? Cella? MdC? MWF? Mystic Waters?

Actually you often find that the entry/mass market stuff is very easy to lather - as the 'average joe' that uses it has neither the quality of brush, technique or patience to properly form a lather with anything more demanding - having said they trade off ease of lather for other things like the quality of lather etc.
And some of it is not. Not sure that cheap = easy lathering. Or expensive = poor lathering. Or vice versa.

Please don't get me wrong - none of this is meant as a slight on you - but I've around 35 artisan soaps and some of the trickiest ones to lather are up there with being the overall best.
I think this is pretty subjective, no? It's not like some of the characteristics you've mentioned are objectively measured.

I'm glad your own shave soap has the best of both worlds as that indicates it definitely is a superior quality soap. :)
Would you like a puck for $50? lol.

-Dave
 
The lather does appear a bit airy and too dry, but you may also want to check on the water temp in the skuttle. I found out that many soaps fall apart as the temperature of the bowl goes up. Personally, I wouldn't go above 120 F and I usually lather at 100-110.
 
Out of curiosity, which brands do you consider "superior" ...? Cella? MdC? MWF? Mystic Waters
Honestly I'm pooped from dealing with a complete debacle in another thread but to answer this correctly I'd prolly end up being rather verbose. As you alluded to in your reply with shaving YMMV is a classic mantra - and even though I've a stack of soaps I've only tried a tiny % of the purported better ones.

It's also sometimes hard to say this is a good brand as soaps within that brand can vary and often they'll have multiple sub-product lines with varying formulations. Plus smaller artisan makers will often change/evolve their recipes over time. So a LOT of variables.

Artisan stuff is generally far superior to mass made stuff - and the best artisan's I've ACTUALLY tried are Mike's, CRSW, Stirling.

Cella is nothing spesh - mass market Italian soft soap, has more of a following as it's a very Italian style soap so new for many folks.MdC never used it but I perceive it's very overpriced and if you took the label off it and used next to another couple of top end soaps would you pay 5 times+ as much for it per unit? Apparently very good but THAT MUCH BETTER? Big premium paid for the brand name/exclusivity.MWF, good solid soap - mainly popular due to it's lanolin content - otherwise just a standardish triple milled commercial soap. Mystic waters? Mixed feedback on them from what I've read - don't get much following in this part of the world - not a tier 1 artisan maker based on what I've read but next rung down.

That all said the biggest variables in shaving are the blades and the user's technique....soap is well down the list.

And some of it is not. Not sure that cheap = easy lathering. Or expensive = poor lathering. Or vice versa
.
Never said it was a case of ALWAYS, that would be incorrect and baseless. I said,"You often find..." and I stand by that 100% as cheaper shaving soaps are often made with entry level ingredients revolving around CO, Tallow and PO - so they tend to be pretty easy to lather.

More expensive, artisan stuff generally brings in a whole new tier of ingredients like exotic butters and pricey oils and higher SF %'s - so these can be harder to lather or often have their 'best lather' looking unlike the big Santa beards like the cheaper ones give out.

I think this is pretty subjective, no? It's not like some of the characteristics you've mentioned are objectively measured.
Again with all due respect I never implied otherwise. Nearly everything on this entire forum is subjective - so I felt this a pretty safe assumption we were both aware of. Critiquing of shaving soap like that of art, music, food, etc etc is almost entirely subjective and thus highly influenced by personal preference, in a way thats kind of a nice feature.

Would you like a puck for $50? lol.
It's certainly nice to have confidence in your product and price it according to the tier of the market within which you feel it belongs but that'd want to be a very big puck for that price.
 
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I actually think that a lot of these special oils used in many artisan soaps are somewhat wasted. At best, they add nothing to the soap, unless they are being used as the superfat which I am not sure baout one way or the other. I think it is mainly a label appeal idea.
 
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