What Is The Optimum % Lye Concentration for My LS Recipe

[DesertRose]

Hello. I'm making some calcualtions for my 2nd liquid soap operation. I used ''water as % of oils'' (as %33) for my 1st LS and it was a success for me. But as i read on this forum, i've seen that you generally prefer ''% Lye Concentration'' method and the value may change depending upon the type of the oils used in the formula. For example, Olive Oil has lower sap rates while Coconut has higher.

So what would you advice regarding water and lye amount for my recipe below ?

Liquid Soap
- Coconut Oil, 76 deg 33%
- Castor Oil 10%
- Olive Oil 57%

Total percentage of scent - 3% (Patchouli-Vanilla FO + Sandalwood FO + Bergamot EO)

And also, is %5 superfatting a good idea ?

 

[AliOop]

Hi there! I generally use a 30% lye concentration when making liquid soap, but I cold process mine. With no cooking, I don't lose any water to evaporation, and thus don't need to start with as much. I believe folks who hot-process their LS tend to use a lower lye concentration.

For LS, it's typically best to keep your SF at 2% or lower. Think about it: in bar soap, the oils are trapped or suspended in the solid mass of soap. But LS is mostly water, and oil and water don't mix, right? That means your SF will typically separate and be visible as an oily layer on top of your LS. If you want a higher SF than 2%, you can mix your SF oils (try 50-50) with Polysorbate 80, and stir it in after dilution. That will keep the extra fat solubilized into the LS. I also use PS80 to keep my fragrance mixed in well, too.

 

[DesertRose]

Hi there! I generally use a 30% lye concentration when making liquid soap, but I cold process mine. With no cooking, I don't lose any water to evaporation, and thus don't need to start with as much. I believe folks who hot-process their LS tend to use a lower lye concentration.

For LS, it's typically best to keep your SF at 2% or lower. Think about it: in bar soap, the oils are trapped or suspended in the solid mass of soap. But LS is mostly water, and oil and water don't mix, right? That means your SF will typically separate and be visible as an oily layer on top of your LS. If you want a higher SF than 2%, you can mix your SF oils (try 50-50) with Polysorbate 80, and stir it in after dilution. That will keep the extra fat solubilized into the LS. I also use PS80 to keep my fragrance mixed in well, too.

Thank you ! Yes, i'm using cold process method too.

Last time i made with %5 SF but this time i would like to keep it lower so %2 sounds good to me. I have polysorbate 80 by the way. Do you have a guess about how much PS80 should i use for approx. %3 FO ? (Patchouli-Vanilla FO, Sandalwood FO, Bergamot EO)

And also do i need to use Rosemary Extract or EDTA ? My supplier sells both of them but ROE is not oil soluble, it's water soluble.

 

[AliOop]

I start with PS80 at half the combined amount of the FO and SF. Sometimes that's not enough, and I have to stir in a bit more.

I haven't ever added ROE or EDTA to my LS, sorry. When using ROE, I add that to my oils when I first open them. That way, they are protected through all the storage time.

 

[DesertRose]

I start with PS80 at half the combined amount of the FO and SF. Sometimes that's not enough, and I have to stir in a bit more.

I haven't ever added ROE or EDTA to my LS, sorry. When using ROE, I add that to my oils when I first open them. That way, they are protected through all the storage time.

I can't find oil soluble ROE here, they only sell water soluble.

 

[AliOop]

I can't find oil soluble ROE here, they only sell water soluble.

Awww bummer, and thanks for clarifying why you add it to your soap instead of your oils. That makes sense!

 

[DesertRose]

Awww bummer, and thanks for clarifying why you add it to your soap instead of your oils. That makes sense!

Just for preservative, anti-oxidant purpose. Germall plus also is not sold here; they sell water soluble ROE, citric acid, EDTA etc.

 

[DeeAnna]

I can't find oil soluble ROE here, they only sell water soluble.

I really doubt you've got rosemary oleoresin extract (ROE). Non-polar solvents are used to extract the oleoresin from rosemary plant material, so by definition the extract itself is non-polar (aka not soluble in water).

One can certainly make a water-soluble infusion from rosemary plant material, but it's not really ROE by strict definition. And I would not assume it would function as effectively as an antioxidant.

Even when using a cold process method to make KOH soap paste, I use 25% lye concentration (this is not "water as % of oils). I've gone as higher and that works too, but I think 25% lye concentration makes a slightly softer paste that is easier to stir and might dilute a bit faster. But it's all what you get used to -- 33% lye concentration works too. I've heard of soap makers who even use 50% lye concentration for their KOH soap.

 

[DesertRose]

I really doubt you've got rosemary oleoresin extract (ROE). Non-polar solvents are used to extract the oleoresin from rosemary plant material, so by definition the extract itself is non-polar (aka not soluble in water).

One can certainly make a water-soluble infusion from rosemary plant material, but it's not really ROE by strict definition. And I would not assume it would function as effectively as an antioxidant.

Yes, i doubt too. They sell 2 types of Rosemary Extract;

1) Rosemary – Olive Thyme Extract
Inci name: Water, Glycerin, Olea Europaea Fruit Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis, Leaf Extract, Thymus Vulgaris Leaf Extract, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate.
Glycerin based, water soluble.

2) Rosemary Extract
Inci name: Water, Glycerin, Rosmarinus Officinalis Extract, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate.
Glycerin based, water soluble.

Even when using a cold process method to make KOH soap paste, I use 25% lye concentration (this is not "water as % of oils). I've gone as higher and that works too, but I think 25% lye concentration makes a slightly softer paste that is easier to stir and might dilute a bit faster. But it's all what you get used to -- 33% lye concentration works too. I've heard of soap makers who even use 50% lye concentration for their KOH soap.

With 37.703 % lye concentration (which equals to 1.6523:1 and 33.00 % Water as percent of oil weight) it took a lot time to dilute it completely for my first ls experience. This time i would like to try 30 % lye concentration or may be %25 as you say.

 

[DesertRose]

I have a problem

Everything was going alright but the soap paste has been solidified suddenly while blending. It's so hard like a rock now, impossible to stir.

Total Oil Weight: 1.455 gr
KOH: 334 gr
Total Water: 780 gr (Actually 580 gr water + 200 gr glycerine)
KOH: 334 gr
Super Fat: %2

What can i do ?

 

[DesertRose]

Dear @Misschief , i saw that you're online and thought that may be you can help me. I've just done my liquid soap but the paste is too thick. Can i add water ? Or what can i do ?

 

[Misschief]

Dear @Misschief , i saw that you're online and thought that may be you can help me. I've just done my liquid soap but the paste is too thick. Can i add water ? Or what can i do ?

Is it somewhat translucent? From what I can see, at this point, you can cover it and leave it until it's fully saponified. Once it is, you can start to dilute it to your desired thickness. Or you can bag it (I use Ziploc freezer bags) and store it until you need it.

 

[DesertRose]

Is it somewhat translucent? From what I can see, at this point, you can cover it and leave it until it's fully saponified. Once it is, you can start to dilute it to your desired thickness. Or you can bag it (I use Ziploc freezer bags) and store it until you need it.

Yes, translucent. Only problem is being too thick and a little lumpy to me. Here is the video;

 

[Misschief]

Yes, translucent. Only problem is being too thick and a little lumpy to me. Here is the video;

That's what the paste is like... thick and translucent. Leave it for about 24 hours; let it do its thing until it's completely saponified (to be on the safe side). It won't be liquid soap until you dilute it

 

[DesertRose]

That's what the paste is like... thick and translucent. Leave it for about 24 hours; let it do its thing until it's completely saponified (to be on the safe side). It won't be liquid soap until you dilute it

Then there is nothing wrong with this batch, thank you

 

[AliOop]

Exactly what @Misschief said. I always blend my paste to the point that it becomes thick. It seems to saponify faster that way, and is usually zap-free in 3-5 hours, max.

 

[DesertRose]

Exactly what @Misschief said. I always blend my paste to the point that it becomes thick. It seems to saponify faster that way, and is usually zap-free in 3-5 hours, max.

Thanks