What is the difference?

Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums

Help Support Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums:

MrWalker1750

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
I'm a beginner in soap making. I often like to look before I leap. I'm interested in making a soap with milk. I've watched several videos on soap making in general and I arrived at this question.

In reference to super fatting and milk soap, what is the difference in making a basic bastille soap with water and lye mixture and super fatting with milk (after trace) and making a soap with a milk and lye mixture with a lye discount?

Thanks in advance.
 

dixiedragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
4,907
Location
Birmingham, Alabama, USA
I am assuming you are asking about the difference in the process? There are several ways to make milk soap. I used canned milk, and I use the milk in oil method.

1) I use 1/2 of my liquid as water and 1/2 as canned milk. So if my recipe calls for 10 oz of water, I will dissolve my lye in 5 oz of water. I let the lye water reach room temp.

2) I melt my oils and let them cool to 90-100 degrees F.

3) I add the 5 oz of canned milk to my oils, then (while stick blending the oil + milk mixture), I pour in my lye water.

In reference to superfatting, there really isn't a difference. Yes, a milk soap will have a slightly higher superfat, but I don't think it's worth worrying about.
 

MrWalker1750

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Thanks for your response.

Not really looking at the difference in the process, more so the difference in the end result. Is there a difference in making soap with a lye water solution and adding milk after trace, or making soap with a lye milk solution no water. I supposed I could test the two, but I'm asking the experienced "saponificianados" who may have already done this.

You have given me a neat alternative of the half milk in the lye and half in the oil. Hmm..

Thank you.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
9,055
Reaction score
9,295
Location
Austria
There wouldn't, really.

First things first, though - I wouldn't use milk at all to start with. If you have never made a soap, see how it goes with just plain water for now and then try out milk later. The additional plus is that you can actually tell what a difference (if any) you find from using milk.
 

Susie

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
9,744
Reaction score
9,281
Location
Texas
Also, I would not ever use milk after trace. You run the risk of it not getting mixed in adequately before pouring. Also, milk adds a lot of liquid that you need to account for in your recipe on the front end. Milk is substituted for part or all of the water in a batch.

Not half in the lye, half in the oil. Water in the lye (or frozen milk), and milk in the oil. Lye mixed directly with room temperature milk will result in stinky, ugly lye mixture.
 

dixiedragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
4,907
Location
Birmingham, Alabama, USA
It would be interesting to have different types of milk soaps laboratory tested. In my case, I like my method b/c I don't get a soured milk/baby spit-up smell. The first time I made milk soap using the lye in milk method, it was perfect, smelled slightly sweet from the honey. Every subsequent batch I made smelled like baby spit up until I switched to canned milk and milk-in-oil.
 

pamielynn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
1,171
Reaction score
763
Location
Texas
"Lye discount" and "superfat" are pretty much the same thing. When you discount, you don't use the full amount of lye that would saponify all the oils in the batch. Say you need 5oz of sodium hydroxide for the amount of oils you are using, you would take a discount on that. If using a 5% discount, you'd only use 4.75oz of lye instead of 5oz.

When superfatting, you ADD 5% more oil and don't take a lye discount.

Does that make sense? It's late, and I'm a bit 'punchy' :)
 

shunt2011

Moderator Emeritus
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
15,448
Reaction score
9,743
Location
Michigan
I too prefer the milk into the oils and lye with water. I do the 50/50 split. 50% water to mix lye and the remainder into my oils, blend well before adding my lye mixture.
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
12,027
Reaction score
11,815
Location
Southern California
I also prefer the milk into oils method. If you want to add in more milk it is easy to use powdered milks, which I also SB into my oils, along with the liquid milk. Actual controlling of superfat only works in hp after the gel phase of the cooking is reached.
 

lsg

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
14,825
Reaction score
6,174
I never alter the preset 5% superfat when using milk or cream and I have good results. I get a super creamy soap with lots of lather. When using cream, I deduct the weight of the cream from the total weight of liquid, using water for the rest of the liquid. Disolve the lye in water and add cream to the oils or at thin trace of the soap. If using milk as 100% of the liquid, freeze the milk in a baggy, laying it flat in the freezer. This makes it easy to break up the frozen milk. Put the broken up milk pieces of milk in a lye-safe container and set that in an ice water bath. Add lye a little at a time, stirring thoroughly after each addition to make sure the lye dissolves. You might want to strain the lye liquid before adding it to oil mixture. This makes sure that no undissolved fat or lye particles go into the oils.
 

dixiedragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
4,907
Location
Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Thanks for your response.

Not really looking at the difference in the process, more so the difference in the end result. Is there a difference in making soap with a lye water solution and adding milk after trace, or making soap with a lye milk solution no water. I supposed I could test the two, but I'm asking the experienced "saponificianados" who may have already done this.

You have given me a neat alternative of the half milk in the lye and half in the oil. Hmm..

Thank you.
No, not half milk in the lye! Half of the liquid as water to dissolve the lye and half as milk to add to the oils. If you add milk to lye, the milk needs to be cold (or even frozen). From reading on forums, the fresh milk soap experts freeze their milk, put the pitcher in an ice water bath, then slowly (meaning this can take as long as 20 minutes) add the lye. I don't do this b/c a) I'm not that impatient and b) when ice is involved, I have found that I often have chunks of undissolved lye.
 

mymy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
255
Reaction score
35
Guys, the rules apply to yoghurt as well? Let's say my total water volume is 200ml, 100ml into the lye, and 100ml yoghurt into the oil?
 

Dharlee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
163
Reaction score
53
If you use canned goats milk this way does it still smell like amonia for a bit? Lol
 

Arimara

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
3,494
Reaction score
2,640
Guys, the rules apply to yoghurt as well? Let's say my total water volume is 200ml, 100ml into the lye, and 100ml yoghurt into the oil?
Yep. You split up the 200ml liquid into 2 x 100ml and you put 1(100ml) of yogurt or whatever milk you use into the oils and use the other 1(100ml) of water for your lye solution. I like to SB it before adding the lye solution though.
 

mymy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
255
Reaction score
35
Yep. You split up the 200ml liquid into 2 x 100ml and you put 1(100ml) of yogurt or whatever milk you use into the oils and use the other 1(100ml) of water for your lye solution. I like to SB it before adding the lye solution though.
Thank you so much Arimara! Is it normal for the lye solution to form somekind of white residue? Is it because of lesser water used to mix it in?
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
17,388
Reaction score
11,214
Location
Right here, silly!
Lye needs an equal amount of water in weight to be able to dissolve properly. So, to do the 'split method', first figure out the total lye and water weights for your batch. Dissolve your lye in a equal amount of water by weight, then add the remainder of your batch's total liquid amount as milk (into your oils).


IrishLass :)
 

mymy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
255
Reaction score
35
thank you for the reply IrishLass! good info. :)
yes, the water was more than the lye.
 

MrWalker1750

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Thank you all for your responses and advice. As I said, this was a part of my research before making a milk soap...or soap at all for that matter.

As an update: I MADE MY FIRST SOAP!! And I'm addicted. It was a simple Bastille soap with olive oil, coconut, and castor oil. I used a loaf mold. I cut it last night and it should be done by Christmas. Yay, for me. Looking forward to trying milk someday.

Thanks again.
 

Susie

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
9,744
Reaction score
9,281
Location
Texas
If that Bastile has more than 50% OO, you need a longer cure than between now and Christmas. High OO soaps take a long time to cure.
 

Latest posts

Top