What does Soap Queen have against lard?

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toxikon

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Hopefully this doesn't come across as defamatory, I'm honestly just curious.

I know that Soap Queen only features the use of palm oil, no lard. That's fine... but I was reading some comments on one of their tutorials, and someone asked if there was an alternative to palm oil, and they flat-out responded with NO, there are NO suitable alternatives.

I see a lot of people around the forum highly recommending lard as an alternative to palm... so are they just outright lying? Do they have some vendetta against using lard in soap?

Like I said, just very curious, because it seems like very conflicting information!
 

Scooter

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Recipes using lard are not hard to find on Soap Queen:

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/lard-loofah-cold-process-soap-tutorial/

ETA: If tl;dr or for folks who do not want to click on the link above, here is a representative quote:

"Lard and tallow can be purchased from the store, or you can render your own at home. Rendering your own tallow is a great way to reduce, reuse and recycle. In the spirit of Earth Day this Friday, I saved bacon grease from an epic Bramble Berry staff lunch cooking extravaganza to use in this palm-free recipe. First, the bacon grease needed to be cleaned up to reduce the smell and remove any bacon bits. Click here to see the process. I also used leftover yogurt containers as the molds in this recipe. I love the cute little shape! Click here for more ideas on using recyclables for soap molds."
 

toxikon

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Recipes using lard are not hard to find on Soap Queen:

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/lard-loofah-cold-process-soap-tutorial/

ETA: If tl;dr or for folks who do not want to click on the link above, here is a representative quote:

"Lard and tallow can be purchased from the store, or you can render your own at home. Rendering your own tallow is a great way to reduce, reuse and recycle. In the spirit of Earth Day this Friday, I saved bacon grease from an epic Bramble Berry staff lunch cooking extravaganza to use in this palm-free recipe. First, the bacon grease needed to be cleaned up to reduce the smell and remove any bacon bits. Click here to see the process. I also used leftover yogurt containers as the molds in this recipe. I love the cute little shape! Click here for more ideas on using recyclables for soap molds."
Weird!

This is the response they gave to the person asking about an alternative:

Hi Megan!

Palm oil adds some great firmness to your soap, and there is no direct replacement for it. You can leave it out of your recipe though! We have a lot of great palm free recipes you may like. I’ll include links below.

Palm Free Vertical Twist: http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-b...ocess-soap/palm-free-vertical-twist-tutorial/

Palm Free In The Pot Swirl: http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/a-palm-free-in-the-pot-swirl/

Formulating Cold Process Recipes: http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/formulating-cold-process-recipes/

Because palm oil adds firmness, recipes without it can take longer to unmold and cure. To speed this process up, you can add 1 tsp. of sodium lactate per pound of oils to your cooled lye water. Read more in the Sunday Night Spotlight: Sodium Lactate: http://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-sodium-lactate/

Also, we only purchase palm oil from the Roundtable for Sustainable Palm Oil, also known as the RSPO.

The RSPO was founded in 2005 to create a system for certifying sustainably grown palm oil, and to create guidelines of membership for certified growers. These guidelines cover more than just environmental stewardship – members of the RSPO must report on and provide better working conditions, better wages, and foster local discussions and input on their impact on local and native land. These principles and criteria for members of the RSPO help ensure that the certified palm oil is produced under legal, socially and environmentally responsible management.

You can read more here: http://www.soapqueen.com/business/on-palm-oil/

-Kelsey with Bramble Berry
 

BattleGnome

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I've noticed that untill Brambleberry starts to carry the product they tend to ignore it. I imagine that most of their revenue comes from people finding the blog or YouTube channel and wanting to make the thing (or at least that's how I found them). Lard is hard to sell fast and unless you have frozen storage it probably doesn't make too much sense to offer it.

Essential waters/hydrosols are a thing they're starting to carry and now are all over the blog. They recently did a clay feature and in the latest email there is a mention that they now carry kaolin clay.
 

Scooter

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Weird!

This is the response they gave to the person asking about an alternative:

"...Palm oil adds some great firmness to your soap, and there is no direct replacement for it. You can leave it out of your recipe though!..."
Maybe this was just a loose choice of words. I mean you could argue that no oil has a direct replacement, depending on how strictly you are defining "direct". That word in itself is pretty ambiguous to me in this context. She goes on to say that one does not have to use palm oil, implying that there may be "kinda-sorta" replacements. I reckon it just depends on how picky you want to be. Certainly I have read people on this forum state that there is no replacement for lard in their recipes, meaning, I take it, that they like lard so much they would not replace it. I file all of this under YMMV.
 

toxikon

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Maybe this was just a loose choice of words. I mean you could argue that no oil has a direct replacement, depending on how strictly you are defining "direct". That word in itself is pretty ambiguous to me in this context. She goes on to say that one does not have to use palm oil, implying that there may be "kinda-sorta" replacements. I reckon it just depends on how picky you want to be. Certainly I have read people on this forum state that there is no replacement for lard in their recipes, meaning, I take it, that they like lard so much they would not replace it. I file all of this under YMMV.
That's fair enough!
 

IrishLass

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Right here, silly!
I think Scooter has it right. I'm pretty sure that when she stated that "there is no direct replacement for palm", that she really meant to say that there is no 1:1 replacement for palm, which is true- there is none (at least not that I know of anyway), which in my mind just makes it a case of "She could've worded it better", especially since she has at least 1 lard soap tutorial on her site.


IrishLass :)
 

lenarenee

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The lard tutorial certainly doesn't leave a reader with any warm fuzzy positive notions about lard though.
 

cmzaha

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They are a supplier not soapmakers per se so I can understand her not pushing lard she they do not sell it. They like to do recipes that include a large amount if not all the ingredients they carry so you can just click the button and add all ingredients to your shopping cart.
 

Omneya

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Not lard related, but when i get the news letter and there is a technique with a recipe. It usually has their "Lots of lather" bag of oils or something like that. Quick something I think. And that erks the hell out of me. Why give a recipe, without actually giving the recipe?
 

dibbles

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Maybe I'm being too generous here re the palm replacement question, but I do think it could have totally been a wording issue as mentioned before. It also could have been taken in the context that there is no vegan friendly replacement.

I like Bramble Berry. When I was a brand new soaper, I watched a lot of their videos, and read a lot on the Soap Queen site. I believe Ann Marie started as a soaper, before she became a supplier. Do they feature videos and articles that promote their products? Of course! Bramble Berry is a business, and they are marketing to their target audience. I don't see a difference there than a new toothpaste, or automobile, or frozen pizza being advertised on TV.

If I'm looking at a recipe for a scrub, there is an Add to Cart button I can push to buy everything there. I can also go elsewhere if I choose. Some of the recipes do list the 'quick mix' type oils, but not all do.
 

toxikon

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I'm definitely not trying to bash them, I buy from BB regularly. Was just curious!
 

jules92207

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I think this may be also just a question of perspective. Most people who want to use palm, but not use palm, tend to be looking for veggie alternatives. The responder may also be vegetarian or only use veggie ingredients themselves so they may not even think about lard or tallow as an option because they don't use it. There's also the question of staying away from the discussion about using animal fats or not, which can get off topic, so perhaps they were looking for the safest route around that topic.

I agree with the notion that they may be more literally stating there is no alternative to it, which is technically true, but it doesn't address the real question of what aspect in soap you are trying to fill with the replaced palm.
 

Soapprentice

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May be they said it because lard is not available all over the world? For example, the part of India I am from, lard or tallow is non existent. Hell, I never heard of 'lard' and 'tallow' until I got into soap making. So may be that.
 

Gerry

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May be they said it because lard is not available all over the world? For example, the part of India I am from, lard or tallow is non existent. Hell, I never heard of 'lard' and 'tallow' until I got into soap making. So may be that.
But notice there's no mention of the other palm oil substitute either: Ghee!

Soap Queen shows their prejudice once again. :twisted:
 

shunt2011

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Ghee is basically clarified butter which by vegans would be an animal product and therefore not vegan and likely some vegetarians as well.
 

toxikon

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But notice there's no mention of the other palm oil substitute either: Ghee!

Soap Queen shows their prejudice once again. :twisted:
Can you use ghee in soap-making? I had no idea!
 
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