What controls the amount of glycerol

[paulp1919]

Hi I am pretty new to soap making but I am improving every batch.
I have a friend who has an allergy to glycerol. Sure it's ok with some soaps others not.
Do different oils generate different amounts of glycerol. Is there any way to control it's effect in a soap with perhaps a natural additive that binds it.
Thanks Paul

 

[AliOop]

Welcome! Sorry I don't have any answer to your question, but hopefully some of the more chemistry-minded folks here can answer that for you.

 

[paulp1919]

Aye it's a tricky one

 

[DeeAnna]

https://classicbells.com/soap/glycerin.asp

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I have a friend who has an allergy to glycerol.

That sounds weird. Glycerol is an intermediate in many bodily functions. One cannot just have a “glycerol allergy”. However, it might well be that soaps that are high in glycerol irritate/sensitise their skin more than those with less, or trigger/worsen some other intolerance (and glycerol just indicates other issues with these soaps).

Handmade soaps will always contain the amount of glycerol present in the oils, like described in the which that @DeeAnna provided.
If you're really into getting your hands dirty, there is a way to remove most of the glycerol from any soap: salting-out.
But in the first place, it appears the best to first find out what (except glycerol) the troublesome soaps have in common.

 

[DeeAnna]

Apparently one can indeed have a glycerin allergy -- Glycerin Allergy

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Good find! That thread does definitely address many aspects of glycerol sensitivity, and how to talk about it. @Susie , @TwystedPryncess and (particularly) @catannc do everything they can to emphasise that it is not an allergy. Just like coeliac disease or fructose malabsorption are not allergies.

If we want to argue over words, let's first agree upon their meaning.

 

[earlene]

It may sound weird, but it is actually possible, although considered rare.

"An allergic reaction to glycerin was first reported by Hannuksela and Förström in 1976.3 In their examinations of irritant and allergic properties of some humectants, they found 1 patient who showed an allergic reaction to 50% glycerin by the chamber method, whereas 420 other consecutive patients with eczema didn't show irritant or allergic reactions. Hannuksela4 also tested several thousand patients with 50% glycerin using the Finn Chamber method. Those results were negative in all but 2 cases (one of them was the same patient in the previous report3). In both of those cases, widespread dermatitis was caused by a cream containing 10% glycerin. The patients in the other 2 cases also had eczema that was caused by cosmetics such as hand moisturizing creams, cosmetic lotions, and cleansing foams.2, 5 In both cases, results of patch tests for glycerin were positive. The reports of the 4 previous cases didn't mention urticaria or immediate skin reactions but discussed only eczema or dermatitis. These investigators also performed patch testing but not prick or scratch testing, so the cases are considered contact allergic dermatitis, rather than contact urticaria syndrome."

Reference

Hi I am pretty new to soap making but I am improving every batch.
I have a friend who has an allergy to glycerol. Sure it's ok with some soaps others not.
Do different oils generate different amounts of glycerol. Is there any way to control it's effect in a soap with perhaps a natural additive that binds it.
Thanks Paul

I would suggest looking into syndet bars (synthetic detergent), which you can formulate, hopefully without glycerin.

I don't make them myself, but there are some here who do, so perhaps you will hear from them.

Below is a video about making a syndet shampoo bar. I cannot vouch for the recipe itself, but you can look up the ingredients listed in the area below the video once you scoot on over to youtube & can see it. (Choose the "watch on youtube" banner in the picture below.)

Also, I suggest looking into this subscription service at swiftcraftymonkey, where Susan is an excellent resource on putting together a product of this type and will answer subscriber questions.

 

[Susie]

Good find! That thread does definitely address many aspects of glycerol sensitivity, and how to talk about it. @Susie , @TwystedPryncess and (particularly) @catannc do everything they can to emphasise that it is not an allergy. Just like coeliac disease or fructose malabsorption are not allergies.

If we want to argue over words, let's first agree upon their meaning.

I typically only ever speak to what MY reactions to products are. I have been both skin (multiple times) and blood tested for allergies. I am "allergic" to nothing. But, wow, do I ever react just as if I were. Example, high pollen season- I sneeze, have itchy eyes and nose, runny nose, post nasal drip, etc. Lotion containing petrolatum-fine (small bumps) rash, super itchy. Syndet soap-same thing. So, whether or not someone else has an allergy, I can't speak to. I just know what my body does.

And before anyone quotes eczema at me, eczema is not necessarily an allergic reaction. Some people get eczema from cold temperatures or stress.

 

[AliOop]

I typically only ever speak to what MY reactions to products are. I have been both skin (multiple times) and blood tested for allergies. I am "allergic" to nothing. But, wow, do I ever react just as if I were. Example, high pollen season- I sneeze, have itchy eyes and nose, runny nose, post nasal drip, etc. Lotion containing petrolatum-fine (small bumps) rash, super itchy. Syndet soap-same thing. So, whether or not someone else has an allergy, I can't speak to. I just know what my body does.

And before anyone quotes eczema at me, eczema is not necessarily an allergic reaction. Some people get eczema from cold temperatures or stress.

Thank you for posting this. My experience is the same. The allergy docs are all so nice until the tests come back negative for everything. Then they eyeball me like I’m a nut job.

Yeah, but here I am with a sinus infection and ear infection every March when things bloom, coughing up phlegm and getting headaches from eating dairy, crazy sneezing whenever I’m out in the grass or pines, skin rashes from detergents, and headaches or even migraines from FOs.

But since they can’t find a test to pinpoint the problem, it is all in my head.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

...there is a way to remove most of the glycerol from any soap: salting-out.

Speaking from experience, this is excellent advice if you want glycerine-free soap. The process works well for a well-balanced bar but not as well for Castiles/Bastiles, IME.

On another note, when I first started making lotion, glycerin was classified as a humectant, but when there isn't enough water in the air, it draws water from the skin. Since Colorado has a dry Alpine Desert climate, low humidity is common. To test this notion out, I first rubbed straight vegetable glycerin on my hands on a rainy day. It felt wonderful! Then I tried it again on a normal low-humidity day and it stung me like a bee! ACK! Lesson learned: I don't use glycerin in my lotions.

To add to @DeeAnna's Soapy Stuff where she mentions rosin...
Adding a bit of rosin to your formula may be a good idea.

ROSIN saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It gives a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and preservative.

When formulating - Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil.
May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive individuals.

 

[Aromasuzie]

@Zany-in-CO I’m assuming you are talking about pine resin?

 

[earlene]

@Zany-in-CO I’m assuming you are talking about pine resin?

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/instruments/violin/what-is-rosin-why-violinists-need-it/
https://www.askdifference.com/rosin-vs-resin/
Incidentally, rosin (and resin) can come from other sources than pine trees. But, maybe that's why you asked the question.

https://www.missourimarijuanacard.com/post/what-s-the-difference-between-live-resin-live-rosin

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@Zany-in-CO I’m assuming you are talking about pine resin?

I'm SO glad @earlene responded to your question. I had no idea!

ETA: The first time I used rosin to make soap I bought a bag of chunks at Dick's Sporting Goods in the Baseball Department. I used a dedicated food processor I found at a garage sale to grind it to a powder. (Ah, those were the days. )

 

[Johnez]

On another note, when I first started making lotion, glycerin was classified as a humectant, but when there isn't enough water in the air, it draws water from the skin.

I always wondered if glycerin could pull water from skin, glad you mentioned this.

 

[Aromasuzie]

@earlene, i had purchased Rosin, also labeled pine resin. I had a quick google for rosin and the first thing than came up was cannabis rosin. . Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Susie]

Thank you for posting this. My experience is the same. The allergy docs are all so nice until the tests come back negative for everything. Then they eyeball me like I’m a nut job.

Yeah, but here I am with a sinus infection and ear infection every March when things bloom, coughing up phlegm and getting headaches from eating dairy, crazy sneezing whenever I’m out in the grass or pines, skin rashes from detergents, and headaches or even migraines from FOs.

But since they can’t find a test to pinpoint the problem, it is all in my head.

Have them test for serum and urine protein electrophoresis (PEL), serum and urine immunofixation electrophoresis (IFE), and quantitative serum free light chain (FLC).

My issue is an abnormal (monoclonal) protein in my blood that affects my immune system. I now have an allergy and immunology doctor that understands this. And while no miracles are happening, she is still working with me on controlling symptoms. It is a refreshing change from my last allergy doctor.

 

[AliOop]

@Susie Thank you so much for sharing that; I will definitely discuss it with my naturopath! I do have the MTHFR mutation, as well as a sulfur processing deficiency, both of which definitely contribute to my symptoms. Don't want to hijack this thread so I'll leave it at that. Thanks again!