What caused the extreme fast gel phase?

Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums

Help Support Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums:

Lauriertje

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
39
Location
Groningen, Netherlands
Okay, the strangest thing happened while soap making. I'll put the ingredients used here below. When I poured the soap in the mold, it just started expanding like lava out of a volcano... Almost half of it dripped over the mold. So it seemed to me like a very fast and heavy gel phase... What do you think what caused this?

The ingredients:
600 grams of olive oil
400 grams of mangobutter
10 ml tea rose fragrance oil
1 tablespoon of dried safflower
A tiny bit of red pigment (Iron Oxide Red)
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2022
Messages
96
Reaction score
282
We call that volcano-ing. Everything reacted too fast. This can happen from your ingredients being too hot or from added sugars or certain additives like FOs or non- CP stable colorants. More information about the source of the additives and the temperatures would help people try to pinpoint the likely culprits.
 

Lauriertje

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
39
Location
Groningen, Netherlands
I indeed mixed everything together very fast, because when I added the lye solution to the melted olive oil and mango butter it started to get very thick very fast... Could this have happened because of too hot ingredients?
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
21,190
Location
USA
Yes -- good thinking. Unusually hot soap batter is often one of the key reasons why the batter overheats and sometimes causes a volcano.

The fragrance might also have helped the batter to overheat. Floral fragrances often cause acceleration.
 

Lauriertje

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
39
Location
Groningen, Netherlands
Thank you both for your reactions :) One thing I didn't know yet, is that the speed of the "thickening" also indicates gel phase. I only associated gel phase with "gelling" and the darkening of the colour. So thank you for learning something new :D
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
21,190
Location
USA
The speed of thickening doesn't tell you anything about whether the soap is in gel or not. The temperature of the soap is the key thing that determines whether the soap is in gel or not.

If the soap heats up fast but doesn't reach its gel temperature, it won't go into gel. If it heats up slowly but reaches its gel temperature, it will go into gel.

edit: That said, if a soap volcanoes, I'd say it's a safe bet that the soap is also hot enough to be in gel.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
4,624
Reaction score
11,459
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
How hot was your lye solution when you mixed it into the oils? And how hot were your oils? If they were both hot, that's a likely cause. At what stage did you add the fragrance oil? Did you notice it thickening up once you added it? If so, that's another likely cause. Or it could be a combination of both.
 

Lauriertje

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
39
Location
Groningen, Netherlands
How hot was your lye solution when you mixed it into the oils? And how hot were your oils? If they were both hot, that's a likely cause. At what stage did you add the fragrance oil? Did you notice it thickening up once you added it? If so, that's another likely cause. Or it could be a combination of both.

Well... I must confess that I didn't measure the temperatures...😳 The mango butter would spoil within a few months, so I made some soap without really thinking it through enough.
But about the fragrance oil: I think this was the biggest culprit, it got very thick very fast after adding the fragrance oil. I added it last by the way.
So it's probably a combination of too high temperature and the fragrance oil...

I learned a lot again, thank you all!
 

JuLeeRenee

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
87
Reaction score
170
Location
Alabama
I personally have never had luck when I have used mango butter. Only because I have had this happen to me I am going to assume that it is a temperature thing and I am only assuming this since I do believe it is the cause of mine. I have very little workspace so I get impatient when it comes to letting things cool down.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
12,410
Reaction score
12,789
Location
Southern California
Geranium EO will also accelerate or usually does as most floral eo's do. Plus the fact they are uber expensive. I am guessing maybe temps were a little high to begin with and the floral fo added to the overheating. Coconut fragrances are infamous for overheating. I always soap with cloudy oils, especially when using suspicious fragrances or fragrances I do not know, and just work through the initial false trace I get with my high tallow, lard, palm, or palm/shea recipes. I also soap room lye between 70º -80º F.
 

Lauriertje

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
39
Location
Groningen, Netherlands
I personally have never had luck when I have used mango butter. Only because I have had this happen to me I am going to assume that it is a temperature thing and I am only assuming this since I do believe it is the cause of mine. I have very little workspace so I get impatient when it comes to letting things cool down.

Haha same. Soap making for me is also some sort of therapy to be more patient! :D
 

Latest posts

Top