What am I doing wrong?

[Aromasuzie]

Hi,

I've been using the same recipe 4-5 times and happy with it. I wanted to have a play with swirling. The only difference between the last 2 times and previous is that I infused the rice bran oil with calendula flowers. I had a quick google and from what I read, it shouldn't affect the cold soap process. I last time I made the mix, it turned almost immediately and I though I maybe was a bit too aggressive with the stick blender. This time I used a whisk and hand blended the oil and lye mix until they emulsified (took only a minutes) and split it into 3 jugs. I hadn't add my essential oils at that stage as I know it can speed up trace. I added annatto infused in oil into the first jug and poured into the loaf mould (5 Minutes). By the time I went to colour the other two, they had already started to solidify into the jugs. I just quickly popped everything into the mould and left the swirling for another time. I like my recipe. Should I add more water to the recipe but then it won't fit into my mould. I put it through the soapCalc, so maybe someone can see where I'm going wrong and help.

Rice bran oil 230g (8.11oz), Coconut oil 76 deg, 250g (8.82oz) Mango seed butter, 220g (7.76oz), water 226gm (9.38oz), Lye 100.2gm (3.53oz). Everything is weighed, 5% superfat discount and lye mix and oils mixed at 38oC (100oF). I normally use cocoa butter but ran out and used the mango butter instead. Again, from what I read, it shouldn't make a big difference. The soapcalc soap bar quality range only slightly changed. Any ideas why its tracing so quickly and how to change it so I can keep it liquid enough to try swirling?

Thanks in advance

 

[atiz]

A lot of factors can influence trace time... How hot do you soap? Usually the cooler your oils and lye, the slower the trace (although you still want everything to be melted enough and avoid false trace).
I tend to use a lot of hard butters & beeswax so trace relatively fast. But what you describe does seem to be too fast.

 

[shunt2011]

You've got a lot of harder oils in your batch so likely to trace faster. I would increase your liquid oil and decrease your CO a bit.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

In my experience, the butters and palm tend to come to trace relatively quickly compared with the hard animal fats. You may not want to increase the rice bran oil due to the linoleic %, but a little OO, or another high oleic oil would help to slow the recipe down. With the coconut oil at almost 36% of the recipe, it's where I would make the change. I typically max out at 20% CO.

 

[Carly B]

In terms of you adding more water and it not fitting the mold, just downsize the recipe in SoapCalc to accommodate additional water.

 

[TheGecko]

Agree with @Mobjack Bay about the CO.

In terms of you adding more water and it not fitting the mold, just downsize the recipe in SoapCalc to accommodate additional water.

That's not quite how it works.

 

[cmzaha]

In terms of you adding more water and it not fitting the mold, just downsize the recipe in SoapCalc to accommodate additional water.

I would not add more water since this recipe already is using the default in soap calc and has a 27% Lye concentration.

I would lower the CO and also add in another high Oleic Oil such as HO Sunflower, HO Canola, or OO. No way would my skin tolerate the high CO and 5% superfat.

With the higher CO and high water, the batter may be heating up faster than it would with less water (higher lye concentration such as a 33%) causing the faster acceleration.

 

[Aromasuzie]

A lot of factors can influence trace time... How hot do you soap? Usually the cooler your oils and lye, the slower the trace (although you still want everything to be melted enough and avoid false trace).
I tend to use a lot of hard butters & beeswax so trace relatively fast. But what you describe does seem to be too fast.

I mix at 38oC

Thanks everyone, I'll reduce the CO and look at adding a high oleic oil. I have tough olive skin so really interesting on the comments on the CO and the rest of the family hasn't mentioned anything. Do you find that high CO dries out the skin or causes irritation?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Do you find that high CO dries out the skin or causes irritation?

It does for some people. For me, I stay below 30% coconut oil and prefer a mix of coconut and PKO. I find that Palm Kernel Oil has a more elegant feel and sometimes use it instead of Coconut. The trick is to find what works for you and your family.

When creating recipes on SoapCalc I watch the Sat/Unsat Ratio for a balance of oils and shoot for an INS value close to 160 -- so called "perfect" soap (according to Dr Bob McDaniels who invented the INS value), although you can make lovely soaps outside of those perameters.

Hope this helps! HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[Aromasuzie]

It does for some people. For me, I stay below 30% coconut oil and prefer a mix of coconut and PKO. I find that Palm Kernel Oil has a more elegant feel and sometimes use it instead of Coconut. The trick is to find what works for you and your family.

When creating recipes on SoapCalc I watch the Sat/Unsat Ratio for a balance of oils and shoot for an INS value close to 160 -- so called "perfect" soap (according to Dr Bob McDaniels who invented the INS value), although you can make lovely soaps outside of those perameters.

Hope this helps! HAPPY SOAPING!

Thanks Zany. When I first decided to look at making soap, I thought I would keep away from the whole palm kernel oil and what's happening to the world etc as organic coconut oil was easy to source from the local supermarkets due to use being close to the pacific islands. I'm having to think again, especially as ethically sustainable palm oil is so cheap. I'll reduce the coconut oil and look at sourcing some palm oil. Interestingly enough, the soap batch I just made has a INS value of 162 but I will certainly have a play

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I'm having to think again, especially as ethically sustainable palm oil is so cheap.

You probably know this, but palm oil and palm kernel oil aren't the same thing. If you want to make a soap with an elegant feel, try using both in a bar. I add a little olive oil.

63% palm or lard
23% olive oil
14% palm kernel oil​

This is a nice Shampoo Bar for white, grey or salt & pepper hair. Add a teaspoon PPO of White Kaolin Clay.

 

[Aromasuzie]

How confusing but I have it sorted now thanks! A know a lot about oils due to completing an Aromatherapy Diploma, but we don't study this one. Thanks for the recipe, I will give it a try. It's nice to see a relatively simple recipe, so many sites seem to want to add all these different and often expensive oils, but surely the whole soap process will destroy a lot of the beneficial constituents, especially omega 3 which is very heat sensitive. I make my own moisturiser so all I want from a soaprecipe is something nice and simple and cheap to make

 

[linne1gi]

Hi,

I've been using the same recipe 4-5 times and happy with it. I wanted to have a play with swirling. The only difference between the last 2 times and previous is that I infused the rice bran oil with calendula flowers. I had a quick google and from what I read, it shouldn't affect the cold soap process. I last time I made the mix, it turned almost immediately and I though I maybe was a bit too aggressive with the stick blender. This time I used a whisk and hand blended the oil and lye mix until they emulsified (took only a minutes) and split it into 3 jugs. I hadn't add my essential oils at that stage as I know it can speed up trace. I added annatto infused in oil into the first jug and poured into the loaf mould (5 Minutes). By the time I went to colour the other two, they had already started to solidify into the jugs. I just quickly popped everything into the mould and left the swirling for another time. I like my recipe. Should I add more water to the recipe but then it won't fit into my mould. I put it through the soapCalc, so maybe someone can see where I'm going wrong and help.

Rice bran oil 230g (8.11oz), Coconut oil 76 deg, 250g (8.82oz) Mango seed butter, 220g (7.76oz), water 226gm (9.38oz), Lye 100.2gm (3.53oz). Everything is weighed, 5% superfat discount and lye mix and oils mixed at 38oC (100oF). I normally use cocoa butter but ran out and used the mango butter instead. Again, from what I read, it shouldn't make a big difference. The soapcalc soap bar quality range only slightly changed. Any ideas why its tracing so quickly and how to change it so I can keep it liquid enough to try swirling?

Thanks in advance

I agree with the above comments about lowering your coconut oil and adding a high oleic oil such as Olive Oil or High Oleic Sunflower Oil. I don't like Coconut Oil over 20% simply because it is too drying. Your number in SoapCalc for cleansing (otherwise known as stripping the oils from the skin) is 24 (range is 12-22), and I like to keep that number at 15 or lower.