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You may want to invest in a new container of sodium hydroxide.
Wazzup Yall!
- Thread starter DickieB
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Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
Oops! I forgot that run of the mill vanilla has alcohol in it. We do not cook with any alcohol because of my allergies. My mistake.
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You're allergic to ethanol? That's a shame but I find that oddly interesting too.
I break out in handcuffs.
I'm rash in strange places....
I could go on but suffice it to say I can't imbibe any amount safely. Not a problem once I accepted the diagnosis.
Steve, I'm glad you know and can make fun of yourself. Life has so much to offer, there is no need not to be authentic.
Welcome DickieB; just wait til you see what you can do with the science of soap!
Welcome DickieB; just wait til you see what you can do with the science of soap!
DickieB
Member
I made a batch last night using the straightforward hot process using my (wife's) crock pot. She's okay with it since she gets to buy a new one to replace it 
Here's the recipe I came up with. I'm trying to get a bubbly bar. (I've attached some pictures so I hope it isn't too much, but pics are worth a thousand words right?)
It all ran smoothly but after cooking for 3 hours on low, I never got the translucent look. It just turned into froth around the sides and eventually in the middle too.
So I stirred it up and there was a bunch of translucent stuff inside.
So, I molded it up. It was like spooning mashed potatoes. It wasn't the smooth, creamy look.
I cut some this morning and it actually made bubbles!!! and smelled good too!!!
Am I on the right track, or did I do something wrong? what should I do better?
Oh yeah, before anyone slaps my wrist for not having safety on, I did wear safety glasses. I have spilled the lye on my hands (once) and yes, it burns a little, but not like everyone says. I just poured vinegar on them and washed them and continued on. I blow as I mix the lye and water, so the fumes don't bother me either. Just me here, everyone else do like you are supposed to and not like I do!
Here's the recipe I came up with. I'm trying to get a bubbly bar. (I've attached some pictures so I hope it isn't too much, but pics are worth a thousand words right?)
It all ran smoothly but after cooking for 3 hours on low, I never got the translucent look. It just turned into froth around the sides and eventually in the middle too.
So I stirred it up and there was a bunch of translucent stuff inside.
So, I molded it up. It was like spooning mashed potatoes. It wasn't the smooth, creamy look.
I cut some this morning and it actually made bubbles!!! and smelled good too!!!
Am I on the right track, or did I do something wrong? what should I do better?
Oh yeah, before anyone slaps my wrist for not having safety on, I did wear safety glasses. I have spilled the lye on my hands (once) and yes, it burns a little, but not like everyone says. I just poured vinegar on them and washed them and continued on. I blow as I mix the lye and water, so the fumes don't bother me either. Just me here, everyone else do like you are supposed to and not like I do!
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You might not have gotten a slap on the wrist, except that you should NEVER put an acid on your skin to neutralize a lye spill. The reaction generates heat which can also cause more damage than the original lye spill! Always just rinse with water.
Many people use stronger lye solutions, which results in a nastier burn, so if you choose not to use safety gear, that's for you to decide, but a ground rule is that PPE should be worn.
That out of the way, it looks like a recipe I wouldn't have gone for - too much co for my tastes, though many like it. But far too much castor for most people. 5% is the norm, with some using closer to 10%. 15% for a normal body bar is not ideal. Too much castor can start reducing lather and reducing the life of the bar.
Many people use stronger lye solutions, which results in a nastier burn, so if you choose not to use safety gear, that's for you to decide, but a ground rule is that PPE should be worn.
That out of the way, it looks like a recipe I wouldn't have gone for - too much co for my tastes, though many like it. But far too much castor for most people. 5% is the norm, with some using closer to 10%. 15% for a normal body bar is not ideal. Too much castor can start reducing lather and reducing the life of the bar.
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Great job on a successful batch! A couple notes, yes castor boosts bubbles in soapcalc, but in reality castor is a lather sustainer. Iow it helps stabilize and sustain bubbles, not create them. I like it at 7 % and 5% is fairly standard. That much co is way drying for many unless you boost your sf up, which can also reduce lather. A good alternative to huge bubbles and the drying factor is the creamy lather you can acheive from lard or tallow. I render my tallow from free scraps at my butchers. Lard is cheap at walmart in the baking aisle (cheapest I've found actually). I use 40-45% tallow, lard, or a tallow lard blend, 5-7% castor, 18% co, and a mix of soft oils to round up the remaining. I reduce my sf to about 3% to aid the lather and use sodium citrate dissolved in water (before adding lye) to break down hard water (scum feel is left from hard water minerals binding to the soap) which also can boost bubbles (allows them to freely form and not interact with the hard water minerals ). Sugar is also used to boost bubbles. I dissolve 1 tablespoon ppo to the sodium citrate water before lye as well. If that high co is ok for you and yours, then by all means continue on. However, if itchy skin or tightness occurs after you cure your bar a good 6 weeks (hp and cp), then consider a reduction of co to at least 20% and sugar added. I buy sodium citrate off eBay in a 5 lb bag for a good price. It's lasted me most this year and will probably last a solid 12 months if not longer. Eventually you can try that as well...and i use 2% sodium citrate so 16 oz oils, I'd use .32 oz sodium citrate. Good luck on having more successful batches!
^What they said! Also, if you are thinking to use HP to avoid cure, don't. You still need cure time.
But congratulations on the soap, and welcome to the addiction!
But congratulations on the soap, and welcome to the addiction!
It's soap!
Looks like you got over the "lumpies".
You can avoid the spooning mashed potatoes into the mold by using the CPOP ( cold process oven process) or just CP ing. Just make sure you get a good trace before adding the FO / EO and pour.
Like many have stated the blend is not ideal, but it's a good place to start. You will find that reducing the % CO and Castor help the soap last longer and make it nicer on the skin. That's a normal part of the learning curve for the addiction.
Cruising the oil aisle, I need more molds oh! look! stackable cooling / curing racks!
This is coming so don't be too surprised. It's all good.
Looks like you got over the "lumpies".
You can avoid the spooning mashed potatoes into the mold by using the CPOP ( cold process oven process) or just CP ing. Just make sure you get a good trace before adding the FO / EO and pour.
Like many have stated the blend is not ideal, but it's a good place to start. You will find that reducing the % CO and Castor help the soap last longer and make it nicer on the skin. That's a normal part of the learning curve for the addiction.
Cruising the oil aisle, I need more molds oh! look! stackable cooling / curing racks!
This is coming so don't be too surprised. It's all good.
DickieB
Member
Thanks so much everyone for your input (good ones and chastising ones
I promise to wear gloves from now on. I have a feeling that once I start "doing this right", I'll have a concoction that will burn my fingers off! So, no more risks on this one.
Go down on Castor Oil, check.
Go down on Coconut Oil, check.
If I may ask, would someone mind to share their favorite bubbly recipe with me? I am only doing 1 lb recipes until I find out that I can do it and that I like what I've made. Also, I like an earthy scent (I'm a disc golfer and tree hugger, so fly on!).
You guys/gals know sooo much about soap. I had no idea that it could be so intriguing and exciting to do. Soap . . . go figger.
Oh, one more thing. the super fatting deal. Is that where you wait til light trace then dump in 5% castor oil?
Does the soap calc take that into account?
I promise to wear gloves from now on. I have a feeling that once I start "doing this right", I'll have a concoction that will burn my fingers off! So, no more risks on this one.
Go down on Castor Oil, check.
Go down on Coconut Oil, check.
If I may ask, would someone mind to share their favorite bubbly recipe with me? I am only doing 1 lb recipes until I find out that I can do it and that I like what I've made. Also, I like an earthy scent (I'm a disc golfer and tree hugger, so fly on!).
You guys/gals know sooo much about soap. I had no idea that it could be so intriguing and exciting to do. Soap . . . go figger.
Oh, one more thing. the super fatting deal. Is that where you wait til light trace then dump in 5% castor oil?
Does the soap calc take that into account?
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Is there a reason you're doing hot process soaping?
Hi and welcome!
Saponification is just beginning at trace and the lye is not reacted yet at that point. Adding in an extra oil at trace is equivalent to adding it in from the beginning. The only way to control SF is to HP your soap and add it in after cooking it.
If you havent played with the SF on soap calc, it has a default of 5% built in. If you want to do a separate SF there are a few ways to do it but, I would just set the SF to 0% or 0.5% and then calculate what 5% of your oils would be and add that in at the end as your SF.
Saponification is just beginning at trace and the lye is not reacted yet at that point. Adding in an extra oil at trace is equivalent to adding it in from the beginning. The only way to control SF is to HP your soap and add it in after cooking it.
If you havent played with the SF on soap calc, it has a default of 5% built in. If you want to do a separate SF there are a few ways to do it but, I would just set the SF to 0% or 0.5% and then calculate what 5% of your oils would be and add that in at the end as your SF.
Do bear in mind that the properties of an oil saponified are different from that of the oil itself. So castor boosts bubbles.......only when it is saponified. If you were adding it after the cook in hot process (so it is unsaponified) then what the soap calc numbers tell you don't apply as they are based on the soap not the oil.
I am willing to share one of my favorite bubbly formulas. Actually, it's an older formula of mine that I've since tweaked /refined here and there in order to also include some tallow and some coconut oil, etc.., but it makes a good and fine bubbly soap as is. I know that many people here on the forum may find the amount of bubbly oil (PKO flakes) I use in it to be too high for them, but different bites for different likes as they say- it works for me and mine just fine. Feel free to make it and tweak it as you like:
Olive Oil 34%
Palm Kernel Oil Flakes 31.5%
Lard 26.5%
Castor oil 8%
I set the superfat on SoapCalc to 6%
IrishLass
SF is oil that is not saponified ( turned in to soap).
If you play with the % SF on Soapcalc and check the amount of lye between say 5% and 20% you can see that small changes in the % lye result in big changes in SF.
CO, lard, and GV( Wal Mart) veggie shortening at 25% each, OO at 18% and castor at 7%. Set the water : lye ratio at 1.5 : 1 and the SF at 7%.
This water to lye ratio will give you lots of time to work with the raw soap. It will slow trace but not emulsion and is intended as a cold process or CPOP. 7% SF is just where I like it and you may have already seen that we all like different levels of SF.
This will need to set overnight as a CP and completely cool as a CPOP before cutting. Cure time is 4 to 6 weeks ( think wine or cheese for cure time) to get the best results.
Others will say that's too much CO and some will say not enough or too much lard. Each to their own. You may not like the thought of using animal fats so if that's an issue for you - don't use it. The recipe is just one that I use when I get the urge to make a few bars.
Salt bars, castile etc are in your future too. Just because you are a scientist you'll have to try them!
Steve
If you play with the % SF on Soapcalc and check the amount of lye between say 5% and 20% you can see that small changes in the % lye result in big changes in SF.
CO, lard, and GV( Wal Mart) veggie shortening at 25% each, OO at 18% and castor at 7%. Set the water : lye ratio at 1.5 : 1 and the SF at 7%.
This water to lye ratio will give you lots of time to work with the raw soap. It will slow trace but not emulsion and is intended as a cold process or CPOP. 7% SF is just where I like it and you may have already seen that we all like different levels of SF.
This will need to set overnight as a CP and completely cool as a CPOP before cutting. Cure time is 4 to 6 weeks ( think wine or cheese for cure time) to get the best results.
Others will say that's too much CO and some will say not enough or too much lard. Each to their own. You may not like the thought of using animal fats so if that's an issue for you - don't use it. The recipe is just one that I use when I get the urge to make a few bars.
Salt bars, castile etc are in your future too. Just because you are a scientist you'll have to try them!
Steve
DickieB
Member
Great info everyone! I bought some new Lye and a new tub of Coconut Oil last night to try Mommypotamus's Youtube tutorial on 100% CO using the hot process.
It turned out pretty well if I do say so myself. Especially compared to the well crap that I have been making. The PH strips showed it at about 8, so I used it in the shower this morning and wouldn't you believe it. I disappeared in all the bubbles! Ohhhh happy day, ohhhh happy day ! The bars are pretty white. the pics don't show it that well.
This weekend I'll try some of the suggestions here and get back to you.
Oh yeah, I made a mold out of UHMW that doesn't stick to the soap and pops apart pretty cleanly. It has interlocking grooves so it doesn't leak.
I use one clamp to hold it together! Love this soap making stuff!!!!
It turned out pretty well if I do say so myself. Especially compared to the well crap that I have been making. The PH strips showed it at about 8, so I used it in the shower this morning and wouldn't you believe it. I disappeared in all the bubbles! Ohhhh happy day, ohhhh happy day ! The bars are pretty white. the pics don't show it that well.
This weekend I'll try some of the suggestions here and get back to you.
Oh yeah, I made a mold out of UHMW that doesn't stick to the soap and pops apart pretty cleanly. It has interlocking grooves so it doesn't leak.
I use one clamp to hold it together! Love this soap making stuff!!!!
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
Looks like it went well! Even though your soap is HP, it still needs time to mature. So it will be different (harder and gentler) 4 weeks from now.
What is UHMW? I am curious? Picture of your mold please!
Curious about what superfat you used on the soap? Some folks find 100% CO soap to be drying b/c if the cleansing power of coconut oil. But you like it, and that's all that really matters!
What is UHMW? I am curious? Picture of your mold please!
Curious about what superfat you used on the soap? Some folks find 100% CO soap to be drying b/c if the cleansing power of coconut oil. But you like it, and that's all that really matters!
Congratulations! One of my regular formulas is 100% coconut oil soap with a 20% superfat. It makes a great soap, but it sure melts away/gets used up quickly because of the high solubility of saponified coconut.
Just FYI- pH strips are not very reliable for testing soap. The chemicals they use as indicators on the strips react badly with the surfactant nature of soap and cause faulty readings. But then again, pH will not tell you if your soap is safe to use anyway. A safe soap is one that has no longer has any active lye present, and pH will not tell you that. The pH of properly made, well-cured lye-based soap will normally settle somewhere between 8.5 and 12.35 and yet be perfectly safe without any active lye in it.
To give you an idea of how useless testing a soap for pH is, one of Johnson's baby soaps has a pH of 12.6 (tested in a lab with a properly calibrated pH meter instead of strips) and actually rates very low on the Irritability Index scale in comparison to other soaps with a lower pH.
The best way to test lye-based soap for the presence of unreacted lye is the 'zap' or tongue test, which, by the way, is best conducted when the soap is about 1 to 2 weeks old- not when freshly unmolded. To conduct a zap test, wet your finger and rub it on your soap to create a small bit of lather. Next, gently touch your lathered finger to only the very tip of your tongue (don't rub it all over your tongue or eat or lick the soap or anything like that). Just lightly touch your lathered finger to the very tip of your tongue and then pull it away. If you felt a an immediate zapping sensation when you touched it to your tongue- much like the sensation of touching the tip of your tongue to the terminal of a small, hand-held 9-volt battery- that means your soap still has active lye present. If you end up wondering if you felt a zap or not, then you did not. Zap is unmistakable and immediate. After the test, if you feel the need to, you can just rinse your tongue off and spit.
If it has active lye present, it could mean either that your soap just needs to cure for a bit longer (such is common with soaps that did not go through the gel-stage) or that you messed up somewhere in your measurements. If your soap zaps, test it again when the soap is 3 or 4 weeks old. If it still zaps at that time, you can be sure that it was a miscalculation when weighing your ingredients. At that point, you can re-batch, adding oil to the melted batter a little at a time while zap testing periodically as you cook the soap, until it no longer zaps. Once it no longer zaps, it's ready to be molded.
IrishLass
Just FYI- pH strips are not very reliable for testing soap. The chemicals they use as indicators on the strips react badly with the surfactant nature of soap and cause faulty readings. But then again, pH will not tell you if your soap is safe to use anyway. A safe soap is one that has no longer has any active lye present, and pH will not tell you that. The pH of properly made, well-cured lye-based soap will normally settle somewhere between 8.5 and 12.35 and yet be perfectly safe without any active lye in it.
To give you an idea of how useless testing a soap for pH is, one of Johnson's baby soaps has a pH of 12.6 (tested in a lab with a properly calibrated pH meter instead of strips) and actually rates very low on the Irritability Index scale in comparison to other soaps with a lower pH.
The best way to test lye-based soap for the presence of unreacted lye is the 'zap' or tongue test, which, by the way, is best conducted when the soap is about 1 to 2 weeks old- not when freshly unmolded. To conduct a zap test, wet your finger and rub it on your soap to create a small bit of lather. Next, gently touch your lathered finger to only the very tip of your tongue (don't rub it all over your tongue or eat or lick the soap or anything like that). Just lightly touch your lathered finger to the very tip of your tongue and then pull it away. If you felt a an immediate zapping sensation when you touched it to your tongue- much like the sensation of touching the tip of your tongue to the terminal of a small, hand-held 9-volt battery- that means your soap still has active lye present. If you end up wondering if you felt a zap or not, then you did not. Zap is unmistakable and immediate. After the test, if you feel the need to, you can just rinse your tongue off and spit.
If it has active lye present, it could mean either that your soap just needs to cure for a bit longer (such is common with soaps that did not go through the gel-stage) or that you messed up somewhere in your measurements. If your soap zaps, test it again when the soap is 3 or 4 weeks old. If it still zaps at that time, you can be sure that it was a miscalculation when weighing your ingredients. At that point, you can re-batch, adding oil to the melted batter a little at a time while zap testing periodically as you cook the soap, until it no longer zaps. Once it no longer zaps, it's ready to be molded.
IrishLass
DickieB
Member
Thanks for the info IrishLass! I know about the 9-volt battery zapp. I did that as a kid. It works with the soap too!
The coconut bar in my shower doesn't seem to melt away any faster than my "ivory" bar that's in there. I've used it for over a week and I still see the corrugation from slicing it. I used Jojoba beads dissolved in essential oil, I think 1.5 oz to my 1 lb batch and added them after cooking as it was cooling down. It looked like Vaseline at the time.
DixieD, UHMW is an acronym for Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic. Some people call it polyethylene (PE), but the UHMW version is more like Teflon than the standard PE, so not much sticks to it. I don't have a picture with me, but I do have the drawings I made to make it. It's a lot like the ones you see on line except that the grooves make it leak-proof and it's so easy to disassemble. The drawing I made shows screws, but after I made it, I just used one of those "quick-clamps", and it worked fine so I didn't even add the screws. I unmolded clean, so I didn't have to wash it, but I did anyway.
The coconut bar in my shower doesn't seem to melt away any faster than my "ivory" bar that's in there. I've used it for over a week and I still see the corrugation from slicing it. I used Jojoba beads dissolved in essential oil, I think 1.5 oz to my 1 lb batch and added them after cooking as it was cooling down. It looked like Vaseline at the time.
DixieD, UHMW is an acronym for Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic. Some people call it polyethylene (PE), but the UHMW version is more like Teflon than the standard PE, so not much sticks to it. I don't have a picture with me, but I do have the drawings I made to make it. It's a lot like the ones you see on line except that the grooves make it leak-proof and it's so easy to disassemble. The drawing I made shows screws, but after I made it, I just used one of those "quick-clamps", and it worked fine so I didn't even add the screws. I unmolded clean, so I didn't have to wash it, but I did anyway.
