Want to increase richness in a recipe I like...

[SoapyGoats]

Wow, thanks everyone for replying! Going to have to experiment Fun!

 

[newbie]

Susie, what is the difference in lather when you use 5% KOH? Is the lather more abundant or is it different in quality (or both)? Details please!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Can't speak for Susie, but here's my opinion --

Using 5% KOH causes the lather to be more abundant and fluffy. The soap behaves as if it has more coconut oil than it actually does.

At 5%, the KOH doesn't make the soap physically soft at all. I can't really tell any difference between a 5% KOH bar and and all NaOH bar if otherwise made with the same recipe. Since the KOH makes the soap more soluble, I imagine it also shortens the life of the bar somewhat, but the difference doesn't seem to be large. The soap still lasts long enough for me to get bored with it.

The improvement from KOH is most impressive IMO with a high oleic soap (100% olive oil, high oleic sunflower, HO safflower, etc.). In that case, the KOH reduces the slime/goo/gel thing that these soaps love to make as well as helping the soap lather more freely. The wet soap bar and its lather will still have that slippery quality that is typical for a high oleic soap -- it's just that there is little or no stringy slime-thing going on. You don't have to work as hard to get nice suds.

The KOH also improves the lather in a high lard soap by making the lather less like whipped cream -- it's got larger bubbles and more of them and they start a little quicker. The effect isn't quite as impressive as with a high oleic soap, since lard soap doesn't create that slime/goo/gel that an oleic soap does. But there's a definite difference.

I doubt the KOH would help a soap that's high in coconut oil, since it already lathers up easily and abundantly with just NaOH.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Is KOH as readily available as NaOH? I haven't ever looked for it in town Or would I have to order it from an online supplier?

 

[CaraBou]

I've never seen KOH locally like I do NaOH. I ordered mine from essential depot quite some time ago - shop around though, there may be better deals.

So do you just dilute the KOH with water using a 1:1 ratio?

 

[Arimara]

So:
35% Olive Oil
20% Coconut
35% Lard
5% Castor
5% Almond

Would it be better to switch out the Almond for Avocado or just lower the Almond more and put the extra % to Lard?

I'm late and I can't speak for almond oil in soap. Avocado oil is really nice though. It adds a slip that you can't get with olive oil. Based on that, I'd take 5% from the olive oil and bump the almond to 10%. Also, make a batch of this soap without the almond oil and compare it to the revised recipe. That will be the only way you would know if it makes a difference.

I REALLY like Rice bran oil.
It's one of my favourites.

In your recipe, I would drop CO and add some RBO if you can get any. Add more lard, butters, you'll get a lovely bar.

I also replaced most of my OO with RBO. My skin is weird, I find OO to be a bit drying. I'm not even using it in facial soaps anymore.

Almond is another favourite. I do use it in small % (5-15) because of the price, but I can definitely feel when it's not in the recipe.

I like RBO myself. It's really a great addition and well worth adding to recipes.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

RBO adds lovely shine and hardness to the soap. It also lathers better than OO and other soft oils.
Another plus is, at least here in Australia, that is relatively cheap. Cheaper than OO most of the time, especially when it's on sale.
Never causes DOS, at least for me. I've given up on lard and tallow because of it. I still use it for my facial soaps, because of my sensitive skin, but I just put up with DOS.

 

[BlackDog]

I second the Avocado oil and adding sugar to your water. And the butters won't help your bubbles, but I find when I add between 5-10% shea butter, the lather takes on a "softness". Makes a nice leg-shaving soap IMO But that's for my tough dragon hide! Your mileage may vary.

 

[Susie]

I've never seen KOH locally like I do NaOH. I ordered mine from essential depot quite some time ago - shop around though, there may be better deals.

So do you just dilute the KOH with water using a 1:1 ratio?

I use Soapee.com, and it allows you to make a hybrid soap right from the start, so it figures out the water percentage. I know, I am lazy and I cheat. But it never made sense to me to figure out all this stuff the long way when there are perfectly good lye calculators out there.

Oh, and exactly what DeeAnna said! I make high lard soaps, so while I love the creamy lather, the KOH brings the big fluffy bubbles to the lather that high lard soaps lack. My husband says it is the closest lather to Zest, which is what he used before me.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you're adding KOH, yes, you want to make sure the combined weight of NaOH + KOH is dissolved in at least an equal weight of water. You want to keep the overall lye concentration no higher than 50%.

If I'm using masterbatched 50% NaOH solution, I just measure that out as usual and set it aside. Since I usually use a 30% to 33% lye concentration, that means I also must use some additional water (or beer or whatever). I put the KOH into this extra liquid and give it a quick stir. The KOH dissolves fast.

Soapee makes a dual-lye recipe easy to do, as Susie explained. It's my first pick. Summerbeemeadow can also calculate a dual-lye recipe, but it is not as user friendly. If using Soapcalc and most of the other calcs I've looked at, you have to use a work-around method to make a dual-lye recipe. Here's an article I wrote about this: http://classicbells.com/soap/dualLye.html

 

[CaraBou]

If you're adding KOH, yes, you want to make sure the combined weight of NaOH + KOH is dissolved in at least an equal weight of water. You want to keep the overall lye concentration no higher than 50%.

I use Soapee.com, and it allows you to make a hybrid soap right from the start, so it figures out the water percentage. I know, I am lazy and I cheat. But it never made sense to me to figure out all this stuff the long way when there are perfectly good lye calculators out there.

Thanks gals. I was asking because I was assuming you should mix the KOH and NaOH in separate containers, and that each would need their own water -- tho I didn't say that. That is different than making the NaOH solution with the entire amount of water in your recipe, and then adding the KOH directly to that. Or mixing the dry NaOH and KOH together, and adding them jointly to the full amount of water. I see now that the classicbells tips coincide with my original assumption, but I am curious if there are cautions with either of the other two methods.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...mix the KOH and NaOH in separate containers, and that each would need their own water.... [or] making the NaOH solution with the entire amount of water in your recipe, and then adding the KOH directly to that. Or mixing the dry NaOH and KOH together, and adding them jointly to the full amount of water...."

Any of these ways will work fine, as long as the lye concentration ends up being no more than 50%. That's really all you have to keep in mind. It really doesn't matter otherwise. People want a specific method, so I described two methods in my article, but I've made this lye combo in all sorts of ways without any problems or concerns other than the usual safety issues when working with concentrated alkali solutions.

 

[SoapyGoats]

Neat! Looking forward to trying some new recipes