Walmart GV Shortening.

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Saby

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I was considering using the Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm from Walmart, but (Great Value Prepared from Meat Fats & Vegetable Oils Shortening) there is no palm in the ingredients list.

Ingredients:
BEEF TALLOW, LARD, HYDROGENATED BEEF TALLOW, SOYBEAN OIL, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, BHA AND BT ADDED TO HELP PROTECT FLAVOR.

Is it a new formula? Can I still run it through SoapCalc?
Thank you.
 

lsg

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The listing in SoapCalc for Walmart GV shortening appears to be for a formula which contains palm oil.
 

earlene

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The order of the ingredients gives a clue.
Ingredients: BEEF TALLOW, LARD, HYDROGENATED BEEF TALLOW, SOYBEAN OIL, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, BHA AND BT ADDED TO HELP PROTECT FLAVOR.

I would guestimate this mix at (more or less): 60% Tallow (total of beef tallow+hydrogenated beef tallow); 20% Lard; 20% Soy. Because the soy can be equal to, but not higher than the amount of Lard. The Hydrogenated beef tallow may also be equal to the amount of lard, but probably isn't since it is ordered after the Lard, but both tallows together have to add up to the bulk of the product. Actually all could be equal in percentage, in which case, all would be 25% (given the order of listing), but it really makes no sense to put lard before beef tallow, IMO, if that were the case. If I was listing ingredients, I would list the two beef tallows together. But that is just me and my logic. It would not be required.

Then the individual SAP values for the ingredients also gives a clue.
Beef Tallow SAP (for NaOH): 0.140 - 0.143
Lard SAP (for NaOH): 0.138 - 0.141
Soy SAP (for NaOH): 0.135 - 0.137
I use a range because different resources give different numbers, so I included what I found.

With varying mixes of percentages keeping the order in mind the amount of lye needed for a 500 g batch varies from 70.3 grams (if all are at 25%) to 70.5 grams (with my 60-20-20 percentages are correct). I would say it's such a small difference that I'd feel safe using the Beef tallow setting with a 3% SF setting or even the Lard setting with a 0% SF setting.

You won't necessarily get all the correct other numbers if you do it that way, but if that is your goal, you'd have to learn what those numbers are for hydrogenated beef tallow. I could not find that information. But the SAP value would still be within the same range as the non-hydrogenated beef tallow.

Or what I would do if it were me, is I'd plug the oils in as I guestimated them and make a test batch with 310 grams of oils, with a 2:1 oil to water ratio = [33.33% Lye] concentration and 0% SF which would give me a total batch size of ~450 grams (or about one pound of soap), which is a nice test size batch.

That's what I come up with, and that's how I'd test this product at first. Then I'd also at the same time, make the same recipe using the ingredients individually following the exact same recipe I created and compare the two soaps for similarities or differences. The only difference would be that I would color them differently so I could tell them apart.
 

Saby

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The order of the ingredients gives a clue.
Ingredients: BEEF TALLOW, LARD, HYDROGENATED BEEF TALLOW, SOYBEAN OIL, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, BHA AND BT ADDED TO HELP PROTECT FLAVOR.

I would guestimate this mix at (more or less): 60% Tallow (total of beef tallow+hydrogenated beef tallow); 20% Lard; 20% Soy. Because the soy can be equal to, but not higher than the amount of Lard. The Hydrogenated beef tallow may also be equal to the amount of lard, but probably isn't since it is ordered after the Lard, but both tallows together have to add up to the bulk of the product. Actually all could be equal in percentage, in which case, all would be 25% (given the order of listing), but it really makes no sense to put lard before beef tallow, IMO, if that were the case. If I was listing ingredients, I would list the two beef tallows together. But that is just me and my logic. It would not be required.

Then the individual SAP values for the ingredients also gives a clue.
Beef Tallow SAP (for NaOH): 0.140 - 0.143
Lard SAP (for NaOH): 0.138 - 0.141
Soy SAP (for NaOH): 0.135 - 0.137
I use a range because different resources give different numbers, so I included what I found.

With varying mixes of percentages keeping the order in mind the amount of lye needed for a 500 g batch varies from 70.3 grams (if all are at 25%) to 70.5 grams (with my 60-20-20 percentages are correct). I would say it's such a small difference that I'd feel safe using the Beef tallow setting with a 3% SF setting or even the Lard setting with a 0% SF setting.

You won't necessarily get all the correct other numbers if you do it that way, but if that is your goal, you'd have to learn what those numbers are for hydrogenated beef tallow. I could not find that information. But the SAP value would still be within the same range as the non-hydrogenated beef tallow.

Or what I would do if it were me, is I'd plug the oils in as I guestimated them and make a test batch with 310 grams of oils, with a 2:1 oil to water ratio = [33.33% Lye] concentration and 0% SF which would give me a total batch size of ~450 grams (or about one pound of soap), which is a nice test size batch.

That's what I come up with, and that's how I'd test this product at first. Then I'd also at the same time, make the same recipe using the ingredients individually following the exact same recipe I created and compare the two soaps for similarities or differences. The only difference would be that I would color them differently so I could tell them apart.
Thank you. I will use Beef tallow setting with a 3% SF.
 

Steve85569

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For the animal version of GV shortening I use the SAP value for lard.
There are usually two different GV shortenings in WalMart here. One is animal and the other has palm in it.
 

shunt2011

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My Walmart also carries both.
 

Saby

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For the animal version of GV shortening I use the SAP value for lard.
There are usually two different GV shortenings in WalMart here. One is animal and the other has palm in it.
What is your SF setting with lard?
 

Mobjack Bay

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I finally decided to give tallow a try when I found this shortening at a regional Walmart. At first I thought it was the one with palm, but when I got home I realized it is tallow, lard and soybean oil. Soybean oil always makes me a little nervous, which is what brought me to this thread.

After reading @earlene ‘s post above, it occurred to me that additional information given on the can for this product should be useful for approximating the composition.

The can lists the distribution of fats in an 11 g serving as follows:

saturated = 4.5 g
trans = 0.5 g
monounsaturated = 4 g
polyunsaturated = 1 g

This adds up to 10 g of fat, not 11. I don’t know how to account for that missing gram of fat, so I just ignored it and set my total fat to 10 g for further calculation. Thus, the mixture of tallow, lard and soybean oil should have 45% saturated, 5% trans, 40% monounsaturated and 10% polyunsaturated. The trans fat could be anything, but with hydrogenated tallow in the ingredient list, I assumed the trans fat is of a saturated fat. If saturated = Lauric + myristic + stearic + palmitic + trans; monounsaturated = oleic; and polyunsaturated = linoleic + linolenic, a close fit using the SMF calculator is as follows:

tallow = 51%
lard = 39%
soybean oil = 10%

which yields the following FA profile:

saturated = 47%
monounsaturated = 39%
polyunsaturated = 10%

This accounts for only 96% of the fatty acids. As I understand it, this is because the calculators don’t include every type of FA that can be present in the oils. Close enough, I think.

A composition of tallow (40%), lard (39%), hydrogenated tallow (11%) and soybean oil (10%) would be consistent with the order of ingredients listed on the can. The sap for the mixture I estimated is 0.141 according to the SMF calculator, which returns 141.35 g of lye needed for 1000 g of oils. Although my percentages vary a bit from those estimated by Earlene, in the end, the sap estimate is the same :). And happily, the polyunsaturated (linoleic +linolenic) percentage is in a range I can deal with.

ETA: according to the SMF calculator, the Walmart tallow/palm blend has 54% saturated, 37% monounsaturated and 7% polyunsaturated fats and a NaOH SAP of .141. Until the calculator is updated, I will probably use that blend as a proxy for the tallow/lard blend. The SAP should be fine, but I anticipate that the calculated recipe will be off a bit on the hardness and longevity. If my calculations are close, the soap will be slightly softer and less long lasting due mostly to lower percentages of palmitic FA in the tallow/lard blend compared with the tallow/palm blend.
 
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Mobjack Bay

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So it turns out that the can I bought does not give a full breakdown of the fats. I got the information from a photo of the can on the website. I’m posting it here for reference.

33F99BFD-AA84-4912-8217-C1F7E50072C2.jpeg
 

FragranceGuy

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I finally decided to give tallow a try when I found this shortening at a regional Walmart. At first I thought it was the one with palm, but when I got home I realized it is tallow, lard and soybean oil. Soybean oil always makes me a little nervous, which is what brought me to this thread.
@Mobjack Bay I was in Walmart and remembered that the only “shortening” result I got from my lye calculator was for GV brand w/Palm. Being skeptical of ingredient changes I read the ingredients and noticed no palm. I didn’t want to purchase until I did some research, which brought me to this thread too 😆 You and @earlene in combination executed some impressive and logical reverse engineering! I’m wondering, what were your results? Did you like GV shortening?
 

Mobjack Bay

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IMHO the tallow/lard shortening makes super nice soap. The lather leans towards the creamy side as expected with these fats. The finished bars have a beautifully smooth texture, which might be related to the processed nature of the shortening, but that’s just a guess. DOS seemed like a possibility due to the soybean oil, but I haven’t had any issues, even in bars that are now over a year old. Here’s a quick pic of a bar I’ve been using recently. If I remember correctly, it was made in January 2019.
image.jpg
 

FragranceGuy

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@Mobjack Bay It looks like a beautiful lard bar under warm lighting 💡 Do you still use GV shortening in any recipes? To me, that would be so telling to your overall opinion. Based on your posts, you’re obviously intelligent, science driven and passionate about soap, which leads me to another question... aside from shelf stability and super high linoleic profiles, are there any other inexpensive oils that you believe are underrated?

ETA: By high linoleic profiles, I’m referring to soybean oil and other less expensive oils, not GV shortening in particular..
 
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Mobjack Bay

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I have’t used shortening since the pandemic began, but only because I forgot to buy it the one time I went to Walmart. My favorite soap of all is based on 20-25% soy wax, 10% shea and 20-25% rice bran oil. Soy wax is a relatively economical choice and RBO can also be inexpensive depending on what kind you buy. I was using Riceland, but have been trying other brands because I’m trying to find one that will make a lighter colored soap.
 

earlene

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@Mobjack Bay I was in Walmart and remembered that the only “shortening” result I got from my lye calculator was for GV brand w/Palm. Being skeptical of ingredient changes I read the ingredients and noticed no palm. I didn’t want to purchase until I did some research, which brought me to this thread too 😆 You and @earlene in combination executed some impressive and logical reverse engineering! I’m wondering, what were your results? Did you like GV shortening?
I used it a few times early in soaping, but I am not really a fan. I did not use the GV with lard, but the GV with palm. The soap was okay, and I can't really say it was the GV shortening per se, but probably more that I have less control over the overall percentages of oils when using a premixed oil such as this. I like it better when I can mix my oils and tweak the percentages to meet my own preferences. Well, other than, I don't really like using soy oil in soap, and GV shortening does (or did then) have soy.

Anyway, I find it interesting that your Walmart store's GV shortening did not include palm. Was it the one with lard? I have seen both, but then as you say, one never can be sure that formula changes might not be an issue. After all, Walmart does NOT manufacture their products. They buy from other manufacturers who put the Great Value brand on their products to be sold as the Walmart brand (GV). And of course, Walmart can change manufacturers at their own convenience, which means the consumer really has no way of knowing when a product is no longer what they expect.
 

FragranceGuy

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Thanks! @Mobjack Bay I’ll do some research on pricing for RBO. As a newb, I haven’t bought oils in bulk because I’m making small batches, so I’ve been drawn to oils that I can find locally and in store. I’ve noticed that RBO is sold as a calorie dense supplement for horses. I grew up on a farm and when I hear something is marketed for horse owners what I hear is “this product is 3x more expensive than it’s true value, but you horse owners will overpay” 😆 So I’ll have to do a little research to make sure I’m not overpaying. I do like the way RBO behaves in the lye calculator and thanks for the heads up on RBO’s effect on the color of soap.

@earlene The shortening I looked at was the same ingredient list as Mobjack Bay described. Tallow, lard and soy plus additives. My local Walmart does still sell a crisco equivalent that has palm, but it’s vegetable based. When I’m working to create a new food recipe I always steer away from blends. Yes, lawrys seasoning salt has been around for a long time, but if I’m serious about developing a recipe, I don’t want to be dependent on an unknown, potentially changing spice blend. So I forbid myself from using it when creating a spice rub unless it’s an improv meal. Same with fragrances. I ONLY want to work with individual ingredients because what if that special blend I used in my favorite fragrance isn’t available, or worse, changed. This paranoia came to fruition last summer when I wanted to make a shrimp boil and every grocery store was completely out of old bay. It had something to do with covid, I didn’t fully research why, I just decided that I wouldn’t rely on other people coming through for what I consider staples. From here on out I’m going to apply the same principles to soap making. I might make soap from shortening for fun or practicality, but I’m not going to invest any more effort into developing a recipe that can be taken away from me at any time. Individual ingredients it is, from here on out! ☺
 
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Todd Ziegler

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I was considering using the Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm from Walmart, but (Great Value Prepared from Meat Fats & Vegetable Oils Shortening) there is no palm in the ingredients list.

Ingredients:
BEEF TALLOW, LARD, HYDROGENATED BEEF TALLOW, SOYBEAN OIL, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, BHA AND BT ADDED TO HELP PROTECT FLAVOR.

Is it a new formula? Can I still run it through SoapCalc?
Thank you.
I use it with the Walmart choice on the Soap calculator and I don't have any problems.
 

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