Vegan soap conundrum

[Dawni]

Ants and frogs and any displaced animals count, sure. But orangutans are endangered and I think that leads to a lot of the focus on that whole issue.

But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..

 

[dibbles]

But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..

I agree @Dawni.

 

[penelopejane]

But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..

I don't know about frogs. We have a green and golden bell frog that has habitat along the east coast of NSW. Not matter what the development there is always an uproar incase it interferes with the frog's habitat. The road's department had to widen a highway through one area and they had to build a dam on the side of the highway for the frogs. I don't think there are any green and golden frogs there except for the toy ones pinned on the fence in protest about the whole ordeal.

 

[SaltedFig]

Frogs are a good choice as environmental ambassadors ... they are like canaries for coal mines.

 

[Dawni]

Yey for the frogs!

I could not think of any other just then so I mentioned ants and frogs but I'm sure you guys get what I meant.

That's good to know.. Something new i learned today.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

Now to make sure you don't introduce animal products via your colorants, you'll have to watch out for some reds as not all are animal free. But with a little research you can easily find colorants that are not made of animal products. Or you can just make non-colored soap.

Clearly, I have some research to do! I vaguely remember something about beetles and the color red. I'm assuming clays and micas would be a safe bet?

 

[greenbarnsoaps]

There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils. Not sure what you are making such a statement. I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap. I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat. Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap. You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.

Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat. So, yes, it is possible.

Hi all. Chiming in with my two cents. I make primarily vegan soap. The standard definition of vegan in a nutritional sense is the non-consumption of animal or animal derivative products - this includes all dairy & honey as they are derivatives. Most people would refer to this diet as plant-based, though a plant-based diet often includes honey (no dairy, eggs, etc, just like vegan). As a lifestyle, which is how most people think of vegan, it includes not using or wearing products with animal or animal derivatives in them. Why someone is vegan makes a difference when you get deeper into it. There’s a lot of overlap and varying degrees of the following. Those focused on animal cruelty will try to stay away from products that harm animals - vivisection, habitat destruction, etc. Environmental vegans may be so due to the effects of animal product/derivative production on our earth. This would include staying away from product that is both animal based and may harm the environment in non-animal ways. Again, there is often quite an overlap.

At the core, vegan soaps include plant-based only ingredients. Personally, knowing the underlying reason why most vegans are so, I also try to avoid use of product if I find out it is detrimental to the environment and/or an animal habitat. Therefore, I don’t use palm. (This isn’t against those who make vegan soap and do use it - again, vegan is at its core just a strict deference from consumption and or use of animal-based product or animal derivatives.) I personally don’t use palm as I also attempt to focus on environmental aspects of production. While the RSPO exists - though there are questions on adherence levels of members, I have found other oils that produce beautiful soaps without it at all.

I also don’t use stearic acid as I focus on cold-process soap and balms only.

I hope that helps!

Right? That was precisely my Q.

Wouldn’t anything that grows in soil theoretically damage these organisms?

Conundrums abound

Yes. Plants disrupt organisms and the growth of them can cause death to insects. Vegans attempt to mitigate as much suffering as possible to animals/insects, but it’s impossible to fully mitigate it. As with most things in life, it’s more of a large gray area than black-and-white/all-or-nothing.

 

[shella]

Actually a few people (including me) have given you strictly vegan recipes so far.

Pure Castile:
100% olive oil + salt 1tsp ppo

Lindy’s shampoo bar (not used on your hair despite the name)
Avocado Oil: 30%
Castor Oil: 10%
Olive Oil: 40%
Shea Butter: 10%
Soybean Oil: 10%
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/

Knowing the availability of oils close to you you can:
Look in last 10 pages of the recipes forum:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/soap-making-recipes-tutorials.24/

If you search the last 10 pages of new posts you will find 30 or so other strictly vegan recipes.

Thank I havent seen those will loook again

Yes! It's still soap! Saponification of oils. All soaps, except for the ones with tallow, lard or goats milk (which I replace with coconut milk) qualify as vegan. Oo, EVOo, Co, Avo, Walnut, Sweet Almond oil, Hemp oil, Rice bran, Castor oil, Mango/Shea/Cocoa Butters, Sea salt, clays, essential oils can all be in your soap. You can create a lot of nice soaps with all that stuff!

Try Zany's (faux) sea salt soap! (use the forum search) Olive oil, sea salt, baking soda, water and lye! (I snuck in some Castor oil too) Cures in weeks, not years.

Don't use micas, fragrance oils or package the soap in a non-renewable product (plastic). Use a muslin bag. Use craft/recycled paper for the label. Not sure if they have a problem with certain ink thou!

Thank you I understand this. Just to say. you made me laugh lol

You can also make 100% coconut oil soaps with salt on them for a nice salt bar that is vegan. There are tons of recipes on here that wont use palm or animal products. Use the forum search instead of teacher google cause then you will end up in websites that may or may not know what they are talking about.

Thatswhat happened to me thanks for the heads up. I totally forgot about this site to be honest.

 

[Donee']

I put a note on my label - natural oils used - and that seems to cover it
If I am using lard or tallow or anything then I label that clearly.
Some vegans tend to go completely overboard with the "save the planet thing" but then are happy to go and buy their seeds in plastic packets...........

If they really want to save the planet then they should be more outspoken about contraceptives.

But then again........ I am a Joel Salatin groupie

 

[Dean]

Clearly, I have some research to do! I vaguely remember something about beetles and the color red. I'm assuming clays and micas would be a safe bet?

Red carmine is made from squashed bugs.

 

[shella]

When I grew



Soap is made by combing a caustic with a fat. According to the FDA it is "mainly composed of alkalai salts of fatty acids" (lye + fat). Plenty of good soap is made without animal fats or animal derivatives. Castile soap is old school and considered by many people all over the world to be very good soap. No animal fats or animal derivatives are in olive oil.




Okay, well what I mean is going beyond the simple definition of no animal products used and expanding it to the extreme where nothing that ever touched an animal can be used. Strict veganism is what I mean by expanding the definition. There is nothing wrong with a person choosing to incorporate all environmental concerns into their lifestyle choices, but I don't believe that every person who chooses to eat a vegan diet is as extreme as possible on this topic. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I believe it has evolved to become more exclusive than in the past.

I don't know what you mean by people using products that contain ingredients from animals and calling it vegan. Please give an example so I know what we are talking about.

Incidentally, when I said I followed a vegan diet for about six months, what I meant to say was 'raw vegan' meaning no cooked foods. Not the same as all vegans. Just to clarify. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.





What do you mean by animal fats hidden in the recipe?

Simple vegan recipe:

100% olive oil + NaOH per your lye calculator. That is a castile soap. There is no animal fat in olive oil and none in lye.


Now to make sure you don't introduce animal products via your colorants, you'll have to watch out for some reds as not all are animal free. But with a little research you can easily find colorants that are not made of animal products. Or you can just make non-colored soap.

Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.

People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
no animal products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK, some information is a little different.

 

[LilyJo]

Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.

People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
no animal products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK, some information is a little different.

I'm not sure where you are looking but vegan soap is widely available as are the fats and oils needed to make it. Been making vegan soap for years and all our products are or have been made with plant based products, nothing derived from animals or from palm.

 

[shunt2011]

Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.

People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
no animal products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK, some information is a little different.

And we've tried to direct you where to go with it. It can be formulated to make vegan soap. It's nothing new, been on the market for years. Knowing what oils and butters bring to the party and knowledge on the FA's of them as well as a working knowledge of a soap calculator and some work you can do it. We've even shared some ideas on how to go about it. I think the thread went a bit off track though.

 

[earlene]

Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.

People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
no animal products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK, some information is a little different.

Okay, well if a soapmaker says the soap is vegan and lists stearic acid and palm oil, that doesn't mean it's not vegan. There is the sustainable palm and vegetable based stearic acid available for purchase. As long as those are used, then it meets the criteria. However, some people (vegan and non-vegan) prefer to avoid using any palm, even the sustainably grown palm. But that is a personal choice and not rule as it pertains to calling oneself vegan.

Granted, to clarify the ingredients for the vegan, it would be a good idea to state on the ingredients list that the stearic acid is plant based (derived from plants) and that the palm was from a sustainable source.

 

[user 29721]

I am amazed how we went from vegan soap topic - to ecological conundrum - to saving animals and endangered species... Short answer - yes there is vegan soap. Castile soap made with only olive oil, lye and water. Bastile soap with the mix of coconut and olive oils, lye and water. For those allergic to nuts (and coconut oil as a result) there is a substitute of babassu oil. Those are great soaps that are both inexpensive and vegan.

 

[Misschief]

Red carmine is made from squashed bugs.

Cochineal, to be exact.

Totally OT.. there's an interesting book about red dye, "the Color Red" by Amy Butler Grenfield.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I am amazed how we went from vegan soap topic - to ecological conundrum - to saving animals and endangered species... Short answer - yes there is vegan soap. Castile soap made with only olive oil, lye and water. Bastile soap with the mix of coconut and olive oils, lye and water. For those allergic to nuts (and coconut oil as a result) there is a substitute of babassu oil. Those are great soaps that are both inexpensive and vegan.

You can use coconut oil if you are allergic to nuts - it's not a nut