Using Soap Calc for HP/CP

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by bookreader451, Sep 1, 2019.

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  1. Sep 1, 2019 #1

    bookreader451

    bookreader451

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    I read that you can use any recipe for hot process that you use for cold process and while that may be true I have found that CP recipes that use 33% lye solution as the default have less water than those that use 38% of water as a percent of oils. I think for HP this is a big difference.

    I have made 2 HP batches with a recipe that uses water as a percentage of oils and they both turned out great. I tried a different recipe today and the soap traced a lot quicker, skipped applesauce and went to gel. It didn't volcano but it definitely rose more than the other recipe I used. It was less fluid and while I was still able to work with it it was nowhere near as fluid as the other batches I made. When I looked at the recipe it was a 33% lye solution. I ran it through soap calc with 38% of water as percent of oils and the water was 3oz more.

    Has anyone else noticed this when using the same recipe for HP and CP?
     
  2. Sep 2, 2019 #2

    shunt2011

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    Fro most HP you need more water. Generally HP is 3:1 water to lye. Any recipe fro CP can be done HP and vise versa with a liquid amount change.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2019 #3

    bookreader451

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    How do you add more liquid? Do you need to run it through a lye calculator first?
     
  4. Sep 2, 2019 #4

    Dawni

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    In the calculator itself. You choose your lye concentration or lye/water ratio. Most of us don't use water as % of oils, here's why.

    I've been HPing close to a year now and noticed that not all recipes require the same amount of water but 3:1 is a good place to start. The problem with using too much water is that the bars eventually warp.

    The other problem is it'll take too long a testing period to figure out how much water your recipe needs, enough to keep it fluid but not warp so bad lol

    I personally use 2:8.. Sometimes leave off some of the water and add it hot at the end for fluidity, and a lot of times I find I don't need to add it back at all. Lastly, there's no beating yogurt for fluidity. If you haven't tried it you should hehehe
     
  5. Sep 2, 2019 #5

    bookreader451

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    Thank you. I did use yogurt and the soap is okay. I used harder oils in this recipe and split it into 4 colors. So maybe I just tried to do to much with it. I do like the color and the scent is amazing and mostly my friends will like it
     
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  6. Sep 2, 2019 #6

    Dawni

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    Show us! Hehehe we love soap pictures :D
     
  7. Sep 2, 2019 #7

    bookreader451

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    Okay the first pic is my first HP it is oatmeal with honey and apple cider. The second is lavender with an in the pot swirl. These were my original recipe. The one that was harder to work with is third. It is supposed to be a hanger swirl.
     

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  8. Sep 2, 2019 #8

    Argie

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    With the lavender one, you have achieved exactly what I am hoping to achieve one day. So beautiful. So far I have never tried using colorants. I learned soapmaking from my mom, who only made very practical bars for laundry and cleaning and washing hands. No attempt to be pretty.
     
  9. Sep 2, 2019 #9

    bookreader451

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    That was pretty easy. You just take some soap batter and color it with mica or other colorants then put it back in with the uncolored soap, give a swirl and put it in the mold. The multicolored blob was supposed to be a lovely hanger swirl.......but, sigh, isn't.
     
  10. Sep 2, 2019 #10

    Argie

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    Children might like it. You'd have to be sure they knew not to eat it. Looks like a jawbreaker to me.
     
  11. Sep 2, 2019 #11

    IrishLass

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    As the others have said you can use any recipe for hot process that you use for cold process, but just change the water to lye ration (aka lye concentration) to compensate. For CP I normally use 33% lye concentration, but when I want to make batches via HP, I use a 28% lye concentration.


    IrishLass :)
     
  12. Sep 2, 2019 #12

    bookreader451

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    Okay that makes sense. Rather than changing the water ratio you adjust the lye ratio. I like the oils in the second formula but I wasn’t happy that it hardened so quickly and my hanger swirl looks like a maple tree threw up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  13. Sep 2, 2019 #13

    DeeAnna

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    "..CP recipes that use 33% lye solution as the default have less water than those that use 38% of water as a percent of oils...."

    That can be true but is not always true. You cannot directly correlate lye concentration (or water:lye ratio) with "water as % of oils" because the saponification value for the fats in the recipe has to be included when converting lye concentration (or water:lye ratio) to "water as % of oils".

    "Water as % of oils" can range anywhere from about 26% lye concentration (2.85 water:lye ratio) to 33% lye concentration (2.03 water:lye ratio) depending on the fats in the recipe.

    Bottom line -- use lye concentration or water:lye ratio and furgeddabout "water as % of oils". It's not nearly as useful as the other two.
     
  14. Sep 8, 2019 #14

    bookreader451

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    I ran the recipe through soapcalc at 28% lye and made a batch today. It worked beautifully. It was fluid and easy to work with. Thank you. I am really drawn to HP and especially love being able to choose my superfat. Today was cranberry butter.
     
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  15. Sep 9, 2019 #15

    Gaisy59

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    This is interesting because i am a basic soaper and i HP my soaps and have not ever seen this info anywhere in my research. As far as i can tell my soaps have turned out fine. What am i not seeing in my soaps that i should see considering that i have not changed the water to lye ratio?

    Also, am i supposed to manually change the percentage in the soap calc?
     
  16. Sep 9, 2019 #16

    IrishLass

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    Hi Gaisy- what I wrote is fairly basic info that was passed down to me by my mentors over at the Dish forum, and it is also advocated here among many, i.e. using a 'full water' amount when HPing (as opposed to using a water discount). Having done HP at different water amounts, I was able to see for myself the wisdom of my mentors. The reason for using a full water amount when doing HP is because of the water evaporation that takes place during the cook. The extra water amount helps make things less gloppy/difficult during pour.....not that it still won't be gloppy and set up fast as compared to CP, but just less so in varying degrees, depending on your water amount.

    A 'full water' amount can vary from person to person. My mentors over at the Dish were using anywhere from a 25% lye concentration to a 28% lye concentration as their 'full water' amount. I got more warping with a 25% lye concentration, so I settled on 28% lye concentration as my go-to 'full'water amount. It still warps a little, but I can live with it. When I make liquid soap, however, a 25% lye concentration works much better for me.

    I don't know what lye concentration you use for your own HP, but if it's working for you, there's no need to change it. Your soap will come out perfectly fine in the end either way, but more water does make things less difficult when it comes to molding.


    IrishLass :)
     
  17. Sep 10, 2019 #17

    Gaisy59

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    Ahhh IrishLass...to have a mentor lol. I found a YouTube video and watched how to make soap, but then i found all of you on the Forum. So i looked at Soapee calc and the water % is 38 and the lye is 30. And i get what you are saying about water evap during cooking because there is a lot on the lid when i open to stir. So now it makes sense because i wondered about evaporation while i was cooking.

    I will do lye at 28% from now on. Thank you.
     
  18. Sep 10, 2019 #18

    Dawni

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    Not all your recipes will require 28% lye concentration (not liquid as % of oils). I found out that it depends on what fats you use and also ambient temps. For example, I've made HP Castile with less than 33% lye concentration and it was ok.

    I'm no expert but I take good notes lol and I've shared some things I noticed in the few months I've been HPing. If you're interested, I've touched on water in that post.

    You'll eventually get the hang of figuring out how much water you need. As a failsafe I usually calculate more than what I think I need, and reserve some of it for after the cook. Sometimes, if the soap is fluid enough I don't even add that water back in.
     
  19. Sep 10, 2019 #19

    bookreader451

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    Thanks for the tips. I have been taking copious notes on every batch (all of 5 so far lol) Only one was to hard and gloppy and once I adjusted the recipe it worked really well. I have only done vegan soap so far and I have added 2 tablespoons of warm apple cider at the end of the cook. I have lard and will try a lard recipe this weekend. I also want to try using cider for some of the water. I am from NY and apples are a thing here. We even burn applewood in our stove in the winter and smoke with it in our smoker. I do have favorite local farm for my apple stuff including the best apple cider doughnuts in the universe!
     
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  20. Sep 11, 2019 #20

    earlene

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    I LOVE apple cider doughuts! Yumm!
     
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