Uncommon Saponified Oils

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coconutoliveallergyp

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Anyone know where I can buy uncommon saponified oils? Other than the typical oils commonly used to make soap (coconut, olive oil, palm oil, shea butter, tallow/lard, soy, etc). Anyone know where I can buy liquid or bar soaps made out of something other than the common stuff like saponified grapeseed oil for example. I l like grapeseed oil the most.
 
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ImpKit

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NDA sells a lot of different oils, including grapeseed. So you can buy the oils and make the soap yourself. But I don't know of any place that just sells soap made from the more uncommon oils, not only because of the rancidity problem @Obsidian mentions but also the cost. The uncommon ones are uncommon partially due to price...

Are you allergic to cocoa butter and sunflower/safflower/canola oils? Because you could try to get a semi-balanced recipe using a HO sunflower, safflower, or canola oil instead of olive and then use some cocoa butter to get the hard oil in there for hardness/longevity. And then a modest percentage of grapeseed to keep the chance of rancidity/DOS down.
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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NDA sells a lot of different oils, including grapeseed. So you can buy the oils and make the soap yourself. But I don't know of any place that just sells soap made from the more uncommon oils, not only because of the rancidity problem @Obsidian mentions but also the cost. The uncommon ones are uncommon partially due to price...

Are you allergic to cocoa butter and sunflower/safflower/canola oils? Because you could try to get a semi-balanced recipe using a HO sunflower, safflower, or canola oil instead of olive and then use some cocoa butter to get the hard oil in there for hardness/longevity. And then a modest percentage of grapeseed to keep the chance of rancidity/DOS down.
No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).
 

cmzaha

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Are you sure you are still allergic to all those oils once they saponify into soap? If you make soap not superfatted you will not have a lot of the free oils left you will only have soap. Your skin may like the above oils as oils but when they become soap the game changes.
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).

To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.
 

KiwiMoose

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To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).

To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.
Just check the other ingredients too in case there's something common to all the soap you've used - such as cocomidopropyl betaine. It may be something else entirely (not the oils per se).

If you know it's high oleic then you could try something along the lines of babassu, rice bran oil, avocado oil, castor oil. It may not be the best soap, but it might be best for you. Apricot kernel oil is high in oleic.

I'd be interested to know which soaps you have used before throwing all the babies ( the good soap-making oils) out with the bathwater - it could be any number of things that are causing the allergy. Are you able to eat coconut/olive/palm/animals/soy etc? If so, then it might not be the oil, but rather the constitution or qualities of the soap that bear exploring.
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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Just check the other ingredients too in case there's something common to all the soap you've used - such as cocomidopropyl betaine. It may be something else entirely (not the oils per se).

If you know it's high oleic then you could try something along the lines of babassu, rice bran oil, avocado oil, castor oil. It may not be the best soap, but it might be best for you. Apricot kernel oil is high in oleic.

I'd be interested to know which soaps you have used before throwing all the babies ( the good soap-making oils) out with the bathwater - it could be any number of things that are causing the allergy. Are you able to eat coconut/olive/palm/animals/soy etc? If so, then it might not be the oil, but rather the constitution or qualities of the soap that bear exploring.
It's interesting you ask, because no I am not allergic to any of those oils when it comes to eating. I use olive oil almost everyday for cooking, and I love coconut milkshakes. Except for soy though, I have a complete allergy to soy and peanuts, walnuts, etc. And as far as the quality of soap, yes that's something I've wondered. But I am not sure how to begin with understanding how to find soaps made in the best quality.
 

KiwiMoose

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It's interesting you ask, because no I am not allergic to any of those oils when it comes to eating. I use olive oil almost everyday for cooking, and I love coconut milkshakes. Except for soy though, I have a complete allergy to soy and peanuts, walnuts, etc. And as far as the quality of soap, yes that's something I've wondered. But I am not sure how to begin with understanding how to find soaps made in the best quality.
Well in the case I suspect it's not the oils themselves, but how the soap is made. Why don't you ask one of lovely peeps on here who lives close to send you a sample bar to try? Have you tried hand made soap before, or just commercial brands?
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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Yes I've tried quite a few homemade soaps on Etsy. Most recently tried a palm oil soap from there and it didn't work for me. I know eventually I'll figure things out. Sometimes I feel like the problem is that I'm just not asking for the right thing. The solution is out there I just don't know what to ask for.
 

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How many of the soaps that you tried had no additives whatsoever? By that, mean no fragrance, colorings, added sugars, etc.
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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The list is endless. I've tried pure coconut oil soap just coconut oil made with lye and no extra additives. I think I got that from Chagrin Valley and it made my scalp the itchiest I have ever experienced in my life. coconut oil itself and coconut oil soap gives me terrible acne. I've tried pure olive oil soaps, pure palm oil soaps no glycerin... liquid soaps, liquid shea butter (black soap) from Alaffia products. Shea butter is in everything these days and it works for most people but I always get an allergic reaction to it.
 

FragranceGuy

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Anyone know where I can buy uncommon saponified oils? Other than the typical oils commonly used to make soap (coconut, olive oil, palm oil, shea butter, tallow/lard, soy, etc). Anyone know where I can buy liquid or bar soaps made out of something other than the common stuff like saponified grapeseed oil for example. I l like grapeseed oil the most.
Are you looking for soap ingredients that work for your skin, or are you looking for ingredients to make your own soap? If you look at a list of ingredients as a purchaser (without percentages) I imagine you’ll get a huge range of soap qualities, whether they contain the same oils, many that won’t work for you. If you’re trying to make soap for yourself, then the oils by name are probably less important bc you’re in control of the fatty acids. You know that high olenic soaps don’t seem to mesh with you, so maybe keeping olive oil below 20% of your oils or completely eliminating it is a good option. If grapeseed oil does seem to work wonders for your skin, then maybe higher linoleic soaps are your jam. You referenced lard as being a popular oil. Are you specifically looking for a vegan soap?
 

ImpKit

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So... just gotta ask: have you tried working this problem out with an allergist and / or dermatologist? With the list of oils you've experienced issues with, it may be better to seek a medical opinion for a hypoallergenic and possibly medicated option.
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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Fragrance Guy: I'm mainly looking for what works for my skin. Believe it or not I have tried soaps with a lesser percent of olive oil and it doesn't seem to make a difference and still causes a reaction. And vegan soaps are best for me because I've tried emu oil soaps and emu oil and other animal-based oils and milks (i.e., goats milk soap). Still not quite right for my skin.

ImpKit: I have seen an allergist before but he only tested me for food allergies and confirmed what I already knew. But I never thought about getting tested for what my skin can tolerate. I will consider that. He gave me Vanicream samples if you've ever heard of that brand which is parrafin/petroleum based and my skin hates anything petroleum as well. Petroleum is usually the base of everything medicated. I've tried other otc soaps like Sebamed, CeraVe, Cetaphil... none of it works and it's all coconut derived or petroleum derived.
 

Quanta

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Fragrance Guy: I'm mainly looking for what works for my skin. Believe it or not I have tried soaps with a lesser percent of olive oil and it doesn't seem to make a difference and still causes a reaction. And vegan soaps are best for me because I've tried emu oil soaps and emu oil and other animal-based oils and milks (i.e., goats milk soap). Still not quite right for my skin.

ImpKit: I have seen an allergist before but he only tested me for food allergies and confirmed what I already knew. But I never thought about getting tested for what my skin can tolerate. I will consider that. He gave me Vanicream samples if you've ever heard of that brand which is parrafin/petroleum based and my skin hates anything petroleum as well. Petroleum is usually the base of everything medicated. I've tried other otc soaps like Sebamed, CeraVe, Cetaphil... none of it works and it's all coconut derived or petroleum derived.
Sounds to me like you definitely need to see a dermatologist. You mentioned an allergy to shea butter, but it isn't even technically possible to be allergic to that (sensitive to, yes, but not a true allergy). Based on that fact, I think you have something else going on and a dermatologist will be able to figure it out.

If you have widespread itching over your whole body, based on what doctors have told me regarding my own case, it's something internal going on with one of your organs, and not anything to do with your skin at all. It just manifests in your skin. Might want to see your primary care doctor to ask about testing for that, too, if that's what you're experiencing.
 

ImpKit

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I really want to second a dermatologist, especially if an allergist didn't look into skin-related allergies.

Because your options are, and this is from a novice soaper and someone NOT in the medical field, becoming swiftly limiting with soap. You've eliminated, basically, all the options for "cleansing" oils (coconut, and for safety PKO & babassu because of the close relation and that an allergy to one increases probability of an allergy to all). You've eliminated more or less all of the non-cleansing hard oils: lard, cocoa butter, shea butter, and by extension for safety mango seed & other butters (most share a number of proteins and any of those could be the trigger). And you've eliminated high oleic oils.

You've pointed out a couple mid oleic/linoleic oils that work for you... but the problem is if you look into general recommendations, "higher" linoleic/linolenic content in a soap increases not only probability of rancidity, but my understanding is it can accelerate the timeline for rancidity.

And most soapers who do this professionally won't be willing to touch making a product for you for a few reasons:
1) Making a "higher" linoleic product decreases the shelf life, increases rancidity, and means the product isn't one they can stand by ethically.
2) Making a "higher" linoleic product can have repercussions for their product liability insurance if you (or someone else) were to submit a claim if, or rather when, the soap went rancid.
3) With all of your allergies, making a product for you puts them at risk of liability if it triggers anything.

All of that places the burden of making a product squarely on your shoulders, which I'm sure is no surprise. You ARE here after all...

But with the increased risk and timeline for rancidity that a high to mid linoleic soap will carry... realistically I see that you'd be needing to make a SINGLE (maybe two) bar(s) of soap once every week to three weeks (depending on size, how long it can cure, shower performance, etc) and then IMMEDIATELY picking up the new bar as soon as cure is done. Trying to make in more bulk than that means you run the real risk of rancid soap / DOS before you get to it, and that means wastage. Lack of hard oils means that the bars sit in molds longer, and may mean longer cure times (a true castille soap requires 6 months plus and some people on here say 12 months plus). So it's also possible that you can't even realistically GET to the soap before it starts to go rancid. Antioxidants like vitamin E or ROE help but all they do is slow/delay oxidation which the source, at least as I understand it, of rancidity.

So... realistically, I think you need to work with a dermatologist and/or other medical professionals to address the issues medically. You might not have an allergy to oleic oils, for example. It could be a different adverse reaction from an underlying condition that needs to be treated, as suggested by @Quanta.
 

Obsidian

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To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).

To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.
What kind of allergic reaction are you having, if you don't mind sharing?
I'm wondering if you have just used poorly made soap and its too harsh?
 

coconutoliveallergyp

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ImpKid: Thank you for your response. I understand that I am highly limited into what I can make and I have learned that high linoleic oils do not make for good soaps so trying that is out of the question. And I am a super novice soap maker. So I know if trained soap makers can't do it then I would have even a harder time. I will definitely check out an allergenist to see if I can get some help.
 

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