Trying to learn liquid soap making

[lrpolillo]

So i have been reading up on making liquid soap. I figure i will use my normal recipe of 30% palm 30% coconut 30% oo 5% castor and 5% sao. I will run it thru soapcalc for the right amount of KOH and distilled water.
But my question is about how much water to use to make the mixture into liquid soap. And i want it liquid soap consistency not thin like used in the foaming soap dispensers. Can anyone offer any help??

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Start at 50% of the paste weight and go slowly upwards until it's the right consistency. Make a note of the water to paste ratio for next time. It is trial and error to start

 

[DeeAnna]

Your recipe is more likely to not be as thick as you say you want. I suspect you will need to include more oleic acid in the recipe to get a honey-thick soap by dilution alone. I'd shoot for 50% oleic, give or take a bit, to ensure a reasonable chance of success with that.

If you do convert your original recipe into a liquid soap version, I'd be extra conservative about dilution. Start by diluting at a ratio of 1 part water to 3 or 4 parts paste. And I'd dilute a sample first -- don't dilute the whole batch until you know how the soap will behave. It might seem like a waste of time, but fixing over-diluted soap is far more annoying and time consuming than doing a sample dilution.

 

[lrpolillo]

Your recipe is more likely to not be as thick as you say you want. I suspect you will need to include more oleic acid in the recipe to get a honey-thick soap by dilution alone. I'd shoot for 50% oleic, give or take a bit, to ensure a reasonable chance of success with that.

If you do convert your original recipe into a liquid soap version, I'd be extra conservative about dilution. Start by diluting at a ratio of 1 part water to 3 or 4 parts paste. And I'd dilute a sample first -- don't dilute the whole batch until you know how the soap will behave. It might seem like a waste of time, but fixing over-diluted soap is far more annoying and time consuming than doing a sample dilution.

Thank you for this. I will try to adjust my recipe!!

 

[DeeAnna]

I hope this works well for you. Please let us know how things go!

 

[lrpolillo]

So i didnt use my normal recipe i used 65% oo 35% co. I blended and it seems like some oils were not blending but i continued until it was thick and then cooked a long time until it looked like pic one. Then i diluted it in a 2 to 1 ratio water to distilled water and there seems to be a film always on top. Is that normal and i hsould let it sut longer or did i do something wrong. Here is the dilution. I pulled the film on top over to the left side.Any Thoughts???

 

[Zany_in_CO]

i used 65% oo 35% co. ... i diluted it in a 2 to 1 ratio water to distilled water and there seems to be a film always on top. Is that normal and i hsould let it sut longer or did i do something wrong.

You actually did quite well! Congrats! The film on top is an indication that you need to add a bit more water -- enough to incorporate the layer of soap film into the batch. Add a bit of water at a time and stir gently to avoid foam, until the film no longer appears. If you've kept good notes, you will now know the exact amount of dilution water for this batch.

NOTE: Be sure to weigh your soap paste before diluting it. Then determine the amount of water required. The thing to keep in mind about dilution rate is that LS high in coconut oil requires less dilution water; LS high in olive oil requires more dilution water. Example:

100% coconut oil LS: 40% soap (by weight) + 60% water
100% olive oil LS: 15-20% soap (by weight) + 80-85% water​

The 100% olive oil soap is thin, but lathers well! Thin LS is just the nature of the beast. It can be thickened in a variety of ways, but the best way is to start with a well-balanced formula that requires no adjustment. In the case of 100% olive oil LS, thicken with salt brine.

Your correct dilution amount depends on the oils used and, in general, takes 2-3 X the weight of oils. For your LS, your ratio of 1:2 soap to water is really close. I'm guessing: 30% soap (by weight) + 70% water should just about do it and you won't have the film appearing on top,

HTH and keep up the good work!

 

[lrpolillo]

Hank you so much. I got the dilution right now and i want to test out fragrance oils. Does anyone have any helpful hint???

 

[Zany_in_CO]

FOs incorporate better if the LS is warm when you add the scent. Usually there isn't a problem, but if you get an oil slick then you can try adding Polysorbate 20, an oil solubilizer, at a rate of 1 part FO to 3-4 parts Poly 20. I use MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage) Fragrance Calc to determine the amount needed. I just select one of their FOs that sounds similar to the one I'm using. Here's a link:

https://www.thesage.com/calcs/FragCalc.html​

 

[lrpolillo]

FOs incorporate better if the LS is warm when you add the scent. Usually there isn't a problem, but if you get an oil slick then you can try adding Polysorbate 20, an oil solubilizer, at a rate of 1 part FO to 3-4 parts Poly 20. I use MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage) Fragrance Calc to determine the amount needed. I just select one of their FOs that sounds similar to the one I'm using. Here's a link:

https://www.thesage.com/calcs/FragCalc.html​

Thank you so much. I was adding when it was cooled completely!!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Sometimes people just skim off the thick layer on top and dilute just that portion by itself. This reduces the risk of over-diluting the whole amount. If the main portion is fine and doesn't need fixing, then fix only the part that's broke.

Scents can change the texture and appearance of liquid soap -- it can become thinner, thicker, clumpy, hazy, etc. So I recommend testing the FO or EO in a sample of soap first, so you can get an idea of what's going to happen (if anything) to the soap.

 

[lrpolillo]

Sometimes people just skim off the thick layer on top and dilute just that portion by itself. This reduces the risk of over-diluting the whole amount. If the main portion is fine and doesn't need fixing, then fix only the part that's broke.

Scents can change the texture and appearance of liquid soap -- it can become thinner, thicker, clumpy, hazy, etc. So I recommend testing the FO or EO in a sample of soap first, so you can get an idea of what's going to happen (if anything) to the soap.

Thank so much. I am still learning. The fragrance oil i really want to use is a dup of a william sonoma spiced chestnut and i absolutely love it. It clouds my soap but i dont care this is for me not to sell!!

 

[lrpolillo]

So my testing of fragrance oils in my liquid soap so dar has been horrible. The lumpiness and clarity change has me put off of liquid soap. I just don’t get how anyone is achieving nicely scented liquid soap

 

[KristaY]

Are you heating the soap before adding the scent? Did you use an emulsifier (like polysorbate 80)? Are you whisking or stirring while adding the FO? Sometimes it takes time for the FO and the soap to blend so might just need to let it sit for a few days. I've been working on an LS now that's taken me 5 days to dilute & emulsify meadowfoam as SF. I imagine when I add the FO it'll take more time for that. LS definitely needs a lot of patience!

 

[DeeAnna]

I would agree about letting the scented soap sit for a few days to see if the texture will smooth out and any cloudiness will clear up. Sometimes minor clumping will smooth out if given a few days. And I've seen the viscosity shift from thin to thicker or vice versa over some days to a couple of weeks.

Speaking of my own experience with LS making, I have never warmed my LS nor added polysorbate when adding scent. I just mix the scent into the LS at room temp and all has been fine -- I've never had a scent that's refused to mix or separated out. That's not to say I wouldn't consider warming and polysorbate if I ran into problems, but so far, so good.

 

[Loralei]

I generally use EOs to fragrance my LS; have always added at room temp, with a 1:1 blend of EO to polysorbate 20. The only time I have clumping issues, is when I use citrus oils - which usually clears itself up within a day or two. I also have my LS in a jug, so I can agitate it from time to time, helping the "declumping" along.

 

[lrpolillo]

Are you heating the soap before adding the scent? Did you use an emulsifier (like polysorbate 80)? Are you whisking or stirring while adding the FO? Sometimes it takes time for the FO and the soap to blend so might just need to let it sit for a few days. I've been working on an LS now that's taken me 5 days to dilute & emulsify meadowfoam as SF. I imagine when I add the FO it'll take more time for that. LS definitely needs a lot of patience!

So will polysorbate 80 help keep the LS from getting thick??

 

[lrpolillo]

So with the first three FOs i used i stirred them in and let them sit for a week because i wanted to see changes. Eqch got thick enough to turn the cup over without any running out. Just dont understand

 

[dschiavo]

On scenting I have found that a high vanilla content will thicken. Orange EO causes separation. I generally use OO, CO, and a small amount of castor oil in my LS. I do warm a little as I find the fragrance blends easier. A little clouding has been the norm for me but it clears out in a few hours