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Tried my first 33% solution... does it always accelerate trace?

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gigisiguenza

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Yesterday's batch I used a 33% solution for the first time. Both the FOs I used are ones I've used before and neither accelerate. My castor oil was only 5%. Nothing in the batch should have caused acceleration, and even though I tend to be a little SB happy, the batter was only at very light trace when I added colors. Oh and each color is one I've worked with before (activated charcoal, madder root, anatto seed powder). There's nothing I can see that would have caused the batter to get so thick so fast... ugh.

It literally went from fluid to thick pudding before I could even get to through the second round of pouring colors. First pour into the pot, everything was ok... a little thicker than I wanted, but ok. By the time I got through the second pass of pouring colors, it was very thick, and even a quick stir didn't loosen it up.

Is this normal for working with a 33% solution?

TY for any help :)
 

gigisiguenza

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Oh, here's the pics so you can see how thick and gloppy it was during the pour. I was aiming for much thinner trails, but it thickened up too quick. I really like this particular style of pour and want to try it again today, but I want to sort out the acceleration issue first if I can.

uploadfromtaptalk1443953005627.jpguploadfromtaptalk1443953018611.jpg
 
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CTAnton

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Gigi...know one would know you didn't do that technique intentionally! They're beautiful!!
 

Obsidian

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I agree, very pretty. If you are using less water, separate and color your batter at emulsion instead of thin trace. You can also slow trace by soaping cooler.
 

osso

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A 33% solution will trace faster than full water, but for well behaved fragrances I can still have a very fluid batter to work with for swirls. Try just blending to emulsion and then add your colors. Check out newbie's swirl tutorial thread too.

...oops was posting the same time as obsidian.
 

gigisiguenza

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less water does make it trace faster! but I think those bars are gorgeous
I didn't realize less water would make it trace faster.... ok Note to Self.... do not try discounting water on swirl pours LOL

And TY, I think they are pretty too, just not what I was aiming for :)
Gigi...know one would know you didn't do that technique intentionally! They're beautiful!!
TY :) I'm falling in love with ITP swirls. I couldn't understand why people liked them until I started looking at them and realized how wispy and ethereal some of the color trails could be. Having tried one now, I think I'm going to be doing them often :)
 

gigisiguenza

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I agree, very pretty. If you are using less water, separate and color your batter at emulsion instead of thin trace. You can also slow trace by soaping cooler.
TY and Ok, will try shooting for emulsion (must resist the urge to SB the begeebers outta things LOL). And I always soap cool, I'm chicken about soaping warm... I fear soap volcanoes spewing multicolored chaos all over my dining room, so no worries on the soaping cooler LOL
A 33% solution will trace faster than full water, but for well behaved fragrances I can still have a very fluid batter to work with for swirls. Try just blending to emulsion and then add your colors. Check out newbie's swirl tutorial thread too.
I'll see if I can find it in a search, TY :)
 

lionprincess00

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The fo probably A on you a tad. Ones that behave at full water you'll realize actually A a little in a water discount sometimes. Perfectly behaved fo's don't do it though. Key word perfect. Emulsion is key and low temps. Check out newbies videos to better see emulsion if you haven't yet, and I agree, very cool soap! Reminds me of the outback.
 

ngian

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Maybe you had an old Olive oil with many free fatty acids and was the reason for fast trace.

You can also have swirls with 33% solution but it depends on the recipe and for how long will you use the SB.
 

shunt2011

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It could also be your recipe. You may just need to up it a tad. I have a recipe that doesn't work well at 33%.
 

cmzaha

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I have a couple of recipes that I know will accelerate at 33%, which like IL, is the sweet spot for me, so I usually lower them to 30-31% and cut the castor to 3% or less. Yes castor does make a difference, I have tested a slow recipe I use with different percentages of castor and it makes a noticeable difference. Depending on what I want to do. 33% solution across the board does not really work, it depends on your recipe, temp and fo. 100% castile I soap at 40% and salt bars I usually soap at 29-31%. For my recipe 29% is considered the default full water in soap calc
 

gigisiguenza

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Hmmmm now ya all got me looking at my recipe dangit.... I don't wanna spend time looking at this recipe, I wanna make soap LOL
 

DeeAnna

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Also, you can use 30% or 31% lye concentration. Even though that doesn't seem like too much of a change up from 28% (full water) or down from 33%, just a percent or two does make a difference.
 

gigisiguenza

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Also, you can use 30% or 31% lye concentration. Even though that doesn't seem like too much of a change up from 28% (full water) or down from 33%, just a percent or two does make a difference.
TY, I really didn't think the water discount would have such an impact :)
 

DeeAnna

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I know what you mean, Gigi. At least for me, a small change in lye concentration has made a difference in how fast my soap comes to trace, etc. See what you think?
 

IrishLass

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I'm late to the party, but congratulations on your first step into water discounting!

As the others have said, things do move faster than with a full water amount, which I see as a plus because I can free up my molds faster, but I'm living proof that it's still very possible to do lots of lovely swirling with a 33% concentration. Depending on your formula, and maybe even more importantly at times, your FO, you may end up with all the time in the world to swirl.

For example, my last batch that I mentioned in the 'What Soapy Thing Did You Do Today' thread (my gold mica pencil line soap), was done with a 33% lye concentration using a quicker-tracing formula for me that includes 10% castor, along with some other potentially 'problematic' fats for me- namely cocoa butter and hydrogenated PKO. I really have to watch my temps with those or else they come out of fluid suspension (aka 'pseudo-trace').

Anyway, the batter actually stayed very workable for me for a whole 45 minutes (yes- it took me that long to get 'er done, lol) because I was working with a very well-behaved FO- Blue Sugar from the now defunct TSW.

Before you go changing your formula, make a batch at 33% using a well-known, well-behaved FO. I don't know if you have any Love Spell on hand, but every single Love Spell I've used from different suppliers has been an absolute dream to work with @ 33%- taking forever and a day to come to trace even with my quickest formula that I mentioned above. Or if you have another FO on hand with just as good of a trustworthy reputation, by all means, use that.

Doing that will give you a better idea whether or not you need to tweak your formula, or whether you just need to increase your water amount slightly down to 31% or so to better accommodate the FO. Although I'm able to use a 33% concentration for most of my batches, I do have to adjust the water amount from time to time down to about 31% or 30% to accommodate certain frisky FOs.


IrishLass :)
 

gigisiguenza

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I'm late to the party, but congratulations on your first step into water discounting!

As the others have said, things do move faster than with a full water amount, which I see as a plus because I can free up my molds faster, but I'm living proof that it's still very possible to do lots of lovely swirling with a 33% concentration. Depending on your formula, and maybe even more importantly at times, your FO, you may end up with all the time in the world to swirl.

For example, my last batch that I mentioned in the 'What Soapy Thing Did You Do Today' thread (my gold mica pencil line soap), was done with a 33% lye concentration using a quicker-tracing formula for me that includes 10% castor, along with some other potentially 'problematic' fats for me- namely cocoa butter and hydrogenated PKO. I really have to watch my temps with those or else they come out of fluid suspension (aka 'pseudo-trace').

Anyway, the batter actually stayed very workable for me for a whole 45 minutes (yes- it took me that long to get 'er done, lol) because I was working with a very well-behaved FO- Blue Sugar from the now defunct TSW.

Before you go changing your formula, make a batch at 33% using a well-known, well-behaved FO. I don't know if you have any Love Spell on hand, but every single Love Spell I've used from different suppliers has been an absolute dream to work with @ 33%- taking forever and a day to come to trace even with my quickest formula that I mentioned above. Or if you have another FO on hand with just as good of a trustworthy reputation, by all means, use that.

Doing that will give you a better idea whether or not you need to tweak your formula, or whether you just need to increase your water amount slightly down to 31% or so to better accommodate the FO. Although I'm able to use a 33% concentration for most of my batches, I do have to adjust the water amount from time to time down to about 31% or 30% to accommodate certain frisky FOs.


IrishLass :)
This is a good idea and I'll give it a try on Wednesday when I'm not working. TY for the example, I'm very visual and examples help me in understanding :)
 

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