thickening 100% coconut oil liquid soap with HPMC

[maria kavathas]

hello everyone, I had some coconut liquid soap that I dilute and needed to thicken to use as dishwashing liquid. I use the HPMC for the first time according the directions it thicken very nicely, but when I use it is very slimy, any ideas? thank you

 

[Zany_in_CO]

but when I use it is very slimy, any ideas?

That's why I don't use HPMC or most thickeners. Some work but the result isn't all that pleasant. Others work but don't hold.

My best advice is to dilute liquid soaps with high coconut oil (50% - 100%) at a rate of 40% soap to 60% water. I formulate at 0% SF and get a nice clear end product. I use 100% coconut oil for laundry, foamers and an Orange Spray Cleanser. The foaming soaps are NOT drying at all at one part LS to 3 parts water and they take color and fragrance very well.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/foamer-soap.81760/

HTH (Hope This Helps!)

 

[tomatoes]

That's why I don't use HPMC or most thickeners. Some work but the result isn't all that pleasant. Others work but don't hold.

My best advice is to dilute liquid soaps with high coconut oil (50% - 100%) at a rate of 40% soap to 60% water. I formulate at 0% SF and get a nice clear end product. I use 100% coconut oil for laundry, foamers and an Orange Spray Cleanser. The foaming soaps are NOT drying at all at one part LS to 3 parts water and they take color and fragrance very well.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/foamer-soap.81760/

HTH (Hope This Helps!)

Hi Zany,
Thank you for this feedback, I also have the same challenge on thickening my coconut oil soap.
I have 80% coconut oil in my liquid soap use for body shower. How to thicken it? I tried using NaCl and xantham gum.. both unable to thicken, I'm not sure whether my thickening method is correct.

I read somewhere that high coconut oil based soap wont be thickened because of coconut oil is just hard oil?

What to do ?
Should I use hybrid lye with NaOH and KOH for my coconut oil based liquid body soap ?

 

[cmzaha]

Only OO liquid soap can be thickened with salt. I agree with Zany 100% CO LS in a foamer bottle is not drying and makes a really nice hand soap.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I've used potassium chloride (KCl) instead of table salt (NaCl) brine to thicken up liquid soap with some success. It doesn't act as strongly as NaCl, but this means easier dosage, less turbidity, and lower chance of separation.

That's not very specific though. Better someone (me?) do some quantitative research before recommending this. What worth is a cure-all if it isn't reproducible?

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Update: I just tried it out. I had a liquid soap from 20% pure coconut at hand anyway. Up to 7% KCl had next to no effect on the viscosity, and so didn't another 3% of NaCl that I threw in “out of despair” afterwards (initially, some sodium soap precipitated, but it dissolves again over time).

I then tested my “scrap” soap. Unfortunately not much scientific precision here, since I don't have numbers on its composition (it contains coconut, castor, palm, canola, sunflower oils… at unknown concentrations).
Initial fluidness is similar to concentrated lye. On addition of KCl, this liquid soap indeed thickens up. At 8% KCl, it's not unlike liquid honey, and still perfectly clear (except for the air bubbles I stirred in).

My tentative explanation for this inconsistency is the fatty acid profile of coconut oil. For sure I will come back to this when my CP liquid soap (high in lauric, but also oleic/linoleic/ricinoleic) is due, and that time with exact numbers!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Update: I started from that soap paste with 42% oil content (2:1:1 oleic:lauric:castor) and a trace of unsaponified oil. Two dilutions: first 1:1 with water. It came out, well, watery, runny and not very viscous. A fine soap, but not very luxurious appearance. The superfat clouds floated on top of the otherwise clear solution.

Second dilution was 1:1 with a potassium chloride solution for 5% final KCl concentration. Compare the viscosity with syrup or castor oil. Not totally “gelled” like commercial liquid soaps or those thickened with careful NaCl addition, but a lot thicker than the only-water variant in any case. And the superfat didn't sediment at all, even after two weeks of resting, neither did separation occur.

Outcome: KCl is less potent than NaCl, but still a option worth considering to thicken oleic LS (lauric LS not so much).

(However, obtaining a thick, gel-like consistency by just not overly diluting the soap paste in the first place is even easier and should be first choice anyway, IMHO.)

 

[gloopygloop]

Personally I find a hybrid duel lye for 100% CO works best to get the consistency that you require as long as total clarity is not necessary as it does tend to cloud up more in cold weather. I dont like watery LS and like most others have tried all of the gums with little success but duel lye does the trick.