# The "One Recipe" Theory - Question

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#### linne1gi

Supporting Member
I will give it a try. Read so much of Deanna's stuff on Classic Bells about the chelators so would have to decide whether to go with citric acid and deal with adjusting the lye or go the easier route and just use sodium citrate. Seems cheap enough to just buy sodium citrate and have one less calculation to deal with.
The math is simple (even for me) Say you have 32 ounces of oils (907 grams, I use grams for ease). Multiply that 907 by .02 (2%) The recommendation is 1-2%, so I go with the 2%. So 907X.02=18.14. We know that 10 grams of citric neutralizes 6 grams of NaOH (It's different for KOH). So we have 18.14 grams of citric, now multiply that by 6 and divide by 10. So 18.14X6=104.84 and divide by 10=10.884 (I round that up to 11). So 18 grams of citric and 11 grams of NaOH. Now that's not much NaOH, so you could just allow your superfat to increase by a little. But the basic formula is always OilsX.02X6/10. It's not too difficult to understand.

#### SPowers

##### Well-Known Member
I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount. Are we talking about a big amount? I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct? And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase. Thanks.

#### linne1gi

Supporting Member
I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount. Are we talking about a big amount? I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct? And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase. Thanks.
I don’t know percentage points, but I add about 8 grams extra NaOH, that’s not much.

Thanks.

#### KiwiMoose

Supporting Member
The math is simple (even for me) Say you have 32 ounces of oils (907 grams, I use grams for ease). Multiply that 907 by .02 (2%) The recommendation is 1-2%, so I go with the 2%. So 907X.02=18.14. We know that 10 grams of citric neutralizes 6 grams of NaOH (It's different for KOH). So we have 18.14 grams of citric, now multiply that by 6 and divide by 10. So 18.14X6=104.84 and divide by 10=10.884 (I round that up to 11). So 18 grams of citric and 11 grams of NaOH. Now that's not much NaOH, so you could just allow your superfat to increase by a little. But the basic formula is always OilsX.02X6/10. It's not too difficult to understand.
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#### linne1gi

Supporting Member

#### linne1gi

Supporting Member
I know, but when I see it in writing like that I just glaze over
Silly girl.

#### Zany_in_CO

##### Saponifier
Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL

This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.

#### linne1gi

Supporting Member
Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL

This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.
I’m no math whiz, I barely got through the courses I had to take in college and for my masters degree, but honestly this isn’t that difficult. You have to want to learn it though.

#### cmzaha

Supporting Member
It actually took me several years to come up with my actual vegan and non-vegan base recipes only changing my liquid oils. While I have sold for over 10 yrs and everyone was happy the last 5 yrs the comments were that my soaps were even better than before. I soap with vinegar, Sodium Gluconate, Edta, and Sorbitol with a 2% superfat on average with dual lye. When I started using chelators I started with Citric Acid but did not like the crystal coating that would form after a few months on the bars.

#### MaryinOK

##### Member
I have been making soap for many years. I keep to the same 2 recipes for the soaps I sell. A milk soap with OO, Rice Bran, CO and a couple of fancy things and a very slightly tweaked Castille (thanks, Zany!!) That doesn't mean I don't experiment, but when I do it is tiny batches, in tiny increments, changing one thing at a time. If I prefer the "new and improved", then that is phased in as I sell out of the old. I have tried a few recipes that are very different to my usual ones, but none have made me decide to change what I am already doing. Of course my current recipes look totally different from those I started with, that is why soapmaking is as much an art as a science.

#### linne1gi

Supporting Member
It actually took me several years to come up with my actual vegan and non-vegan base recipes only changing my liquid oils. While I have sold for over 10 yrs and everyone was happy the last 5 yrs the comments were that my soaps were even better than before. I soap with vinegar, Sodium Gluconate, Edta, and Sorbitol with a 2% superfat on average with dual lye. When I started using chelators I started with Citric Acid but did not like the crystal coating that would form after a few months on the bars.
Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?

#### Arimara

Supporting Member
Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL

This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.
I love when people say French is easy. I never had a head for French but I can follow some Spanishes (I have my reasons for saying that), Italian (minimally) and I can recognize a bit of Korean (I have to if I want to get certain good products).

Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?
There could be something about her environment that produces that. She is in West Coast, after all.

#### Steve85569

Supporting Member
I use 2% citric to the weight of oils. .02 x weight of oils = weight of citric acid to be added.
To compensate to neutral the multiplier that I use is 0.624.
Weight of citric acid x 0.624 is the weight of sodium hydroxide to be added.

Example:
Batch is 794 grams of oil.
794 x .02 = 15.9 grams of citric.
15.9 x 0.624 = 9.9 grams of sodium hydroxide.
The multiplier for potassium hydroxide is 0.842 because the mol weight is different. DeeAnna can explain that. She has to me ( thank you!).

And yes I have a base recipe that I use for most of my soap. I will change it a bit from time. See the post on soy wax users.

#### Zany_in_CO

##### Saponifier
a very slightly tweaked Castille (thanks, Zany!!)
You're so very welcome!

#### Zany_in_CO

##### Saponifier
I’m no math whiz, I barely got through the courses I had to take in college and for my masters degree,
I don't have a masters degree but I do have a work-around for adding citric acid -- I soap at 0% SF. Think about it.

#### cmzaha

Supporting Member
Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?
I do know the difference with soda ash, it was a coating from the citric. With my large selection due to selling many times, my soaps would stay in stock for 6-12 months or more. Citric acid would form a layer of crystals on the soap. If you refer to DeeAnna Soapy Stuff she also refers to it, in fact, she and I had a couple of discussions about it.
ETA Hm, 2% also did not cut the scum to my liking...

#### cmzaha

Supporting Member
I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount. Are we talking about a big amount? I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct? And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase. Thanks.
You multiply the amount of citric acid you are using by 0.624 to get your extra lye usage. When I did use citric acid I used 12g citric acid and 7g extra NaOH 12 x 0.624 = 7.488 I rounded to 7 g

#### Gaisy59

Supporting Member
Just for my two cents worth...i hot process and i have used patchouli, tea tree, lavender eo’s and i add them after the cook before the mold and the scents stay and even last on my skin for a bit.

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