The hard bar

[Sandiebrown65]

Hi Everyone,
As my soap making has progressed over the past few months, my husband (although extremely supportive) always complains that my soaps are too soft and not like the store bought ones. So in my quest to find a bar of soap that can (if needed) cause a concussion I found a recipe on line and changed it slightly to use up some little bits of shea and coco butter I had sitting there. It hardened up really fast and was pretty much soap on a stick by the time I poured/dolloped it into the mould. When I cut the soap I found that the cut surface is really rough and lumpy. Have I simply gone overboard with the hard oils or is there something specific that would cause this texture? I have bought many soaps from other artisan soap makers and their surfaces are silky smooth. Is there a secret to achieving smooth soap?

 

[AliOop]

Well, at least the colors turned out pretty.

My first thought is that 3% beeswax is too much. I don't know if that's what caused your lumpy texture, but it almost certainly caused the fast hardening. That bar will also be super drying to the skin, since your cleansing number is at 23. For a pretty hard bar with a lower cleansing number, try something like:

Tallow 35%
Olive oil 25% (could also use HO safflower, or rice bran oil, or a mix)
Coconut oil 19%
Cocoa butter 10%
Shea butter 5%
Castor oil 5%
Beeswax 1%

That would still be too high on cleansing for my skin, but many folks would be ok with it. You'd probably also want to add some form of sugar to up the bubbles, like 2-3 T PPO dissolved in your water before adding lye.

Also, are you making sure to keep the bar dry in between uses, in a well-drained soap dish? Handcrafted soap does get soft and mushy if it sits in any water.

 

[glendam]

Usually the smooth surface is achieved by using a soap planer. Some fragrances can cause a lumpy surface too.

 

[Sandiebrown65]

Well, at least the colors turned out pretty.

My first thought is that 3% beeswax is too much. I don't know if that's what caused your lumpy texture, but it almost certainly caused the fast hardening. That bar will also be super drying to the skin, since your cleansing number is at 23. For a pretty hard bar with a lower cleansing number, try something like:

Tallow 35%
Olive oil 25% (could also use HO safflower, or rice bran oil, or a mix)
Coconut oil 19%
Cocoa butter 10%
Shea butter 5%
Castor oil 5%
Beeswax 1%

That would still be too high on cleansing for my skin, but many folks would be ok with it. You'd probably also want to add some form of sugar to up the bubbles, like 2-3 T PPO dissolved in your water before adding lye.

Also, are you making sure to keep the bar dry in between uses, in a well-drained soap dish? Handcrafted soap does get soft and mushy if it sits in any water.

Thanks AliOop!
It doesn't matter if it is drying to the skin, he is a boilermaker and is usually black from grinding dust. In the past he has used Solvol as a soap(not sure if you have that in the US?).
Re: the beeswax - I read somewhere here on this forum to use between 1-3% beeswax so going for the soap brick level of hardness I opted for the full 3%.

I will give the above recipe a try and see if that comes out better for me. I didn't mind that it was super fast to trace because it is just for him anyway and he truly doesn't care if it is pretty or ugly, nor how it smells. He just want's hard soap that cleans the black off his skin.

As for keeping the soap out of the water in the shower, yes, we put our soap on a wire rack in the shower area so it can't sit in water. Nothing worse than goopy soap!!

Usually the smooth surface is achieved by using a soap planer. Some fragrances can cause a lumpy surface too.

I do have a soap planer but I find it leaves lines on the surface and you can see that it was planed. Do you find this happens too or is my planer just dodgy?

 

[KiwiMoose]

I think that if you were able to pour your soap rather than glop it in, you would have had a smooth surface. Also if you were soaping too cool with beeswax it would have started to harden into lumps. In addition - sometimes the FO can cause a slight ricing effect which ends up looking textured like that.

But other than that - I would suggest that you let your partner know we can never make our soaps as hard as commercial soap, simply because they are not milled (compressed) like commercial bars are.

 

[artemis]

You might want to try Earlene's Blacksmith Soap; not because of hardness, but because it's designed for people who do extra dirty work.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...cksmith-or-other-dirty-work.61277/post-920949

 

[lsg]

You have a majority of hard oils and fats plus beeswax in your recipe. IMO, it was bound to set up in a hurry. You might try using olive oil or rice bran oil in the recipe as suggested by AliOop. Soap with a high olive content has a longer curing time, (hardness), but after a few months they usually become very hard. You might take an exfoliant in the soap, such as finely ground coffee.

 

[glendam]

Thanks AliOop!
It doesn't matter if it is drying to the skin, he is a boilermaker and is usually black from grinding dust. In the past he has used Solvol as a soap(not sure if you have that in the US?).
Re: the beeswax - I read somewhere here on this forum to use between 1-3% beeswax so going for the soap brick level of hardness I opted for the full 3%.

I will give the above recipe a try and see if that comes out better for me. I didn't mind that it was super fast to trace because it is just for him anyway and he truly doesn't care if it is pretty or ugly, nor how it smells. He just want's hard soap that cleans the black off his skin.

As for keeping the soap out of the water in the shower, yes, we put our soap on a wire rack in the shower area so it can't sit in water. Nothing worse than goopy soap!!



I do have a soap planer but I find it leaves lines on the surface and you can see that it was planed. Do you find this happens too or is my planer just dodgy?

Mine does leave some fine lines, but they don’t usually show up in product pictures, but I can capture them if I angle it just right, like in here. Is this the kind of lines you are seeing?

 

[Zing]

Nothing to add here but wanted to tell you your soap looks great! I too was going to suggest Earlene's blacksmith soap which I have made before. And it's on my to do list for the week. Good luck!

 

[AliOop]

Another vote here for Earlene’s blacksmith soap. I make it for our mechanic and he loves it. It’s not particularly hard, but it cleans so well and doesn’t dry out the skin.

I believe it’s the borax and exfoliants that make her soap so amazing. You could probably use any non-drying recipe, including one with tallow, butters, and a titch of beeswax, as long as you add the borax and pumice. It does need a good cure - I was meh about till 6 weeks and then was absolutely delighted with it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

we can never make our soaps as hard as commercial soap, simply because they are not milled (compressed) like commercial bars are.

FWIW The closest I've come to replicating triple-milled soap is ZNSC -- a somewhat hard bar that releases lather readily (85% Olive, 10% Coconut, 5% Castor variation); it keeps its shape to the very end (unlike any bar I've ever made) so that all I have to do is use water to press it into a new bar -- no waste, and it just feels wonderful on my hands & especially my sensitive-dry-mature-skin face! Not braggin'; just sayin'.

The Basic Trinity of Oils formula, surprisingly, is another one that feels like fancy French luxury bars, once fully cured, just as it is with the 3 basic oils. It would be challenging to improve on that one, IMO. Sometimes I wonder why we bother to even try... but we do!

You have a majority of hard oils and fats plus beeswax in your recipe. IMO, it was bound to set up in a hurry.

I couldn't agree more! @Sandiebrown65 take a good look at the Soap Bar Qualities on your print out. The Recommended Range is there for a reason. Compare that to the Values you used and your formula is off the chart for hardness. Oopsie!

Although the Range is there as a guideline, I think you would be happier if you adjusted your ingredients to work within them -- aim at an INS Value of 160 -- the so-called value for "perfect" soap.

 

[cmzaha]

While I have not made Earlene's formula I have made a similar formula with the addition of ammonia, but that is for another thread, and I would recommend hers. Earlene's sounds great. My only other thought is I love a combination of tallow and lard.

 

[TheGecko]

As my soap making has progressed over the past few months, my husband (although extremely supportive) always complains that my soaps are too soft and not like the store bought ones.

That would be because the way commercial soaps are processed with machinery and you're not going to be able to replicate it unless you have around $100k (or more) to spend on equipment that first turns your freshly made soap into noodles, then run those noodles through a mill at which point you add different chemicals, then to an extruder where you cut the soap into small blocks that you then place into a hydraulic press that compresses the soap into a specific shape.

After finding a scent that my husband absolutely loved, he then complained that it wasn't 'bubbly' enough. I tried a couple of things to increase the bubbles and while it did add some more, it was also a bit of an annoyance since I like to Master Batch (pre-mix Lye Solution and/or Oils/Butters). So I grabbed one of apocalypses bars of soap (commercial soap left over from before I started making soap) and stuck it in the shower for him...he didn't like my 'new' recipe.

So in my quest to find a bar of soap that can (if needed) cause a concussion I found a recipe on line and changed it slightly to use up some little bits of shea and coco butter I had sitting there. It hardened up really fast and was pretty much soap on a stick by the time I poured/dolloped it into the mould.

I would try:
30% Tallow Beef
25% Palm Oil
30% Coconut Oil
10% Cocoa Butter
5% Castor Oil

Add a couple of teaspoons of salt to your water before adding your lye.

I also recommend getting a 4" Square Silicone Mold so you can make smaller test batches (13.5 oz of Oil at 33% Lye Concentration).

When I cut the soap I found that the cut surface is really rough and lumpy. Have I simply gone overboard with the hard oils or is there something specific that would cause this texture? I have bought many soaps from other artisan soap makers and their surfaces are silky smooth. Is there a secret to achieving smooth soap?

Cutting your soap with a flat blade of a knife or using a planner. I use a wire cutter and plane all my soaps.

 

[lucycat]

How long do you cure out your bars? Although a 6 week old bar is fine for use I find that my bars will be a lot harder (and nicer) at 4 to 6 months. Just increasing the time before use might be all you need to get the hardness he would like.

 

[Ladka]

#The Gecko - he didn't like your "new" recipe

 

[ArcticBanshee]

I know this probably won’t help you because you aren’t making m & p, but if you wanted to do it that way, BB’s Shea butter base soap gets pretty hard if you use an individual soap mold. Let it sit for a couple of weeks, even though it doesn’t need curing. I’m sick of looking at the bar I’m using lol

 

[Sandiebrown65]

Mine does leave some fine lines, but they don’t usually show up in product pictures, but I can capture them if I angle it just right, like in here. Is this the kind of lines you are seeing?

Yes, that is exactly how mine looks after I plane it. Good to know this is normal. Thanks for that

I couldn't agree more! @Sandiebrown65 take a good look at the Soap Bar Qualities on your print out. The Recommended Range is there for a reason. Compare that to the Values you used and your formula is off the chart for hardness. Oopsie!

Yes, I looked at these before I actually made the soap. Lol I was delighted with how hard it was going to be. I was like "yippee" something I can use as a hockey puck if I got complaints. However you also mention about the holy trinity of oils and I must say, my first soap was exactly that. I have a few bars of that left and now 4 months down the track they are feeling pretty hard. But I will definitely give the borax soap a go, our son (also a boilermaker) can have some too.
Thanks for your feedback here I really appreciate the help.

 

[TheGecko]

#The Gecko - he didn't like your "new" recipe

I know...right? You would have thought he had learned his lesson from about a decade ago when he started (w)itching about my perfume, body wash, deodorant, hand lotions, hairspray, shampoo and conditioner. I was totally sympathetic to his chemical sensitives and did my best to find less 'offensive' products, but it got to be utterly ridiculous (we were having problems). So one day I used HIS shampoo, HIS deodorant, HIS bar soap, HIS hair gel and he still (w)itched. The look on his face when I tossed HIS products in his face.

It should be noted that his chemical sensitives aren't as bad as they used to be though there are some FOs that bother him more than others. As for my personal hygiene products...we no longer argue about them.

 

[Sandiebrown65]

After finding a scent that my husband absolutely loved, he then complained that it wasn't 'bubbly' enough. I tried a couple of things to increase the bubbles and while it did add some more, it was also a bit of an annoyance since I like to Master Batch (pre-mix Lye Solution and/or Oils/Butters). So I grabbed one of apocalypses bars of soap (commercial soap left over from before I started making soap) and stuck it in the shower for him...he didn't like my 'new' recipe.

Aren't they precious! I purchased a souvenir soap from MONA museum in Tasmania (you need to look that up, not appropriate for this forum) and just put that into the shower and said nothing. Neither did he....... for about a week he avoided using it. He finally asked what it was and is it meant to look like that and that he didn't think we should be giving those soaps to family and friends and that I probably should stop making them. I know it was probably a rotten thing to do but he is such an easy target, bless him. He was trying so hard to be very diplomatic too

 

[Catscankim]

I do have a soap planer but I find it leaves lines on the surface and you can see that it was planed. Do you find this happens too or is my planer just dodgy?

Try planing on an angle. Don't go straight across. And make sure the blade and surface are clean of anything (like bits of soap from the last bar).

I found it helpful to practice on bars that I planned on keeping for myself, or just a waste bar that you could just play with. Just not the ends, you'll risk cutting yourself.