Temps and H2O

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Savonette

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Hi all,
I'm at the phase of TOTAL RE-EVALUATION! I posted a recipe on the Calculator that I'd love some feedback on. I'm giving up on stearic acid (spots), citric acid (grainy) and fast setup (increasing my H2O%). I want the middle-of-the-road formula that can swirl a bit, has great lather and slip, doesn't shrink and deform. I'm happy with this recipe but question the TEMPS and H2O. Do I really have to change my recipe if I want to do a more detailed swirl or can I just soap at a different temp. What's the go-to water % for that trifecta of gel/swirl/shrink? And does that vary according to one or two key fatty acids? I'm thinking there's got to be one or two golden rules that I just haven't found yet...
Thanks everyone

Temps & H2O
 

Obsidian

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Is there a reason you want to use small amounts of so many different oils? Seems like that recipe could be simplified a lot.

Try something like this, 5% SF
50% lard (or 25% lard, 25% palm)
25% olive or rice bran
20% coconut
5% castor

If using lard with no palm, this recipe will trace slow. Soap around 95*, the hotter the temps the faster it will trace.
If you use the lard/palm combo it will trace faster, at least it does for me.

I use water:lye at 2:1 in all my recipes, swirls or not.
 

Savonette

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Is there a reason you want to use small amounts of so many different oils? Seems like that recipe could be simplified a lot.

Try something like this, 5% SF
50% lard (or 25% lard, 25% palm)
25% olive or rice bran
20% coconut
5% castor

If using lard with no palm, this recipe will trace slow. Soap around 95*, the hotter the temps the faster it will trace.
If you use the lard/palm combo it will trace faster, at least it does for me.

I use water:lye at 2:1 in all my recipes, swirls or not.
I can try this. My issues with high lard % in the past result in excessive soap scum. We’ll see how EDTA works out. Those earlier bars also shrank a lot and not in a pretty way. The calculator give this an 18 on the bubble-o-meter. Yours are still bubbly? Thanks so much for this
 

atiz

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I can try this. My issues with high lard % in the past result in excessive soap scum. We’ll see how EDTA works out. Those earlier bars also shrank a lot and not in a pretty way. The calculator give this an 18 on the bubble-o-meter. Yours are still bubbly? Thanks so much for this
You can add a bit of sugar/honey/sorbitol/aloe vera/etc. to increase sugar. It really does help.
I have a similar recipe and I quite like it, it's a good soap. And yes, bubbly enough.
 
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And if you are having a problem with soap scum, you need lower superfat and add EDTA. That recipe Obsidian posted is a good one. Plenty bubbles, nice creamy lather. If you want more bubble, take @atiz suggestion above. I use 1 tablespoon/PPO.
 

Obsidian

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I can try this. My issues with high lard % in the past result in excessive soap scum. We’ll see how EDTA works out. Those earlier bars also shrank a lot and not in a pretty way. The calculator give this an 18 on the bubble-o-meter. Yours are still bubbly? Thanks so much for this
Lard does seem to make more soap scum but I don't really notice it much anymore, the edta will help with that.

It bubbles plenty, not like a store bought soap but enough for handmade soap. I like using aloe juice to help with bubbles.
 
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I have found that I needed to develop a second recipe for more swirling time, though my usual recipe works ok for some swirling/ patterns too.
I cannot go too low in my temperatures because I use soy wax at 20% and it needs to be soaped warm. My typical ratio is 50/50 sat/unsat fats, but after reading something by Ione about her famous swirls she said she uses 40sat/60 unsat so I made a second recipe to do more intricate swirls which contains 45% OO and less soy wax. Still needs to be warm-is but the OO allows more time.
My water: lye ratio is usually around 2.33:1 but with the high OO it's 2.57:1
The most important thing I've found is making sure you are using a well behaved FO for swirls.
Photo examples of usual recipe swirl ( with naughty FO so had to adapt the type of swirl), followed by high OO swirl.
B341EBAF-A2DC-4C84-A81E-54A4B48BC73D.jpeg8CC546A9-9B45-438D-A4DA-02586674C27D_1_201_a.jpeg
 

Savonette

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Lard does seem to make more soap scum but I don't really notice it much anymore, the edta will help with that.

It bubbles plenty, not like a store bought soap but enough for handmade soap. I like using aloe juice to help with bubbles.
I have tons of aloe juice. I’m looking forward to see what EDTA will do. I recently found the “longevity” marker on the calculator and now trying to hit a higher mark hence the cocoa butter. I also have RBO that needs using up so..I figured the lye ratio and temps needed updating and just hope I’ll consistently make beautifully awesome bars Instead of every other. Thank you
 

Savonette

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You can add a bit of sugar/honey/sorbitol/aloe vera/etc. to increase sugar. It really does help.
I have a similar recipe and I quite like it, it's a good soap. And yes, bubbly enough.
You can add a bit of sugar/honey/sorbitol/aloe vera/etc. to increase sugar. It really does help.
I have a similar recipe and I quite like it, it's a good soap. And yes, bubbly enough.
Awesome! And no funny shrink/warping?
 

Savonette

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And if you are having a problem with soap scum, you need lower superfat and add EDTA. That recipe Obsidian posted is a good one. Plenty bubbles, nice creamy lather. If you want more bubble, take @atiz suggestion above. I use 1 tablespoon/PPO.
I’ve read you need to use cane sugar because beet sugar can “grow”. I’ve started lowering my SF to 3% and it feels better right out of the mold! Thanks
 

Savonette

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I was having issues with CA and cut it back to 1%. I use it in recipes that don’t have animal fats. For those I use edta because I have It and want to use it up.
Very interesting! That’s a note for my book! I was using the 10g/6g calculation and found my soap cured all ashy. Don’t you like EDTA?
 

Savonette

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I have found that I needed to develop a second recipe for more swirling time, though my usual recipe works ok for some swirling/ patterns too.
I cannot go too low in my temperatures because I use soy wax at 20% and it needs to be soaped warm. My typical ratio is 50/50 sat/unsat fats, but after reading something by Ione about her famous swirls she said she uses 40sat/60 unsat so I made a second recipe to do more intricate swirls which contains 45% OO and less soy wax. Still needs to be warm-is but the OO allows more time.
My water: lye ratio is usually around 2.33:1 but with the high OO it's 2.57:1
The most important thing I've found is making sure you are using a well behaved FO for swirls.
Photo examples of usual recipe swirl ( with naughty FO so had to adapt the type of swirl), followed by high OO swirl.
View attachment 46322View attachment 46323
Those are beautiful swirls. I usually do 43:57 say:unsat and never did more than 15% lard because of our hard water scum. I’m going to try 95F more consistently to see if it helps. I like soaping hotter for stearic acid bubbleocity but stearic and I haven’t been getting along so well lately. And of course those strong florals and citrus. I’m just back from a 3 year hiatus so...🤪
 
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Very interesting! That’s a note for my book! I was using the 10g/6g calculation and found my soap cured all ashy. Don’t you like EDTA?
I haven’t really done the side by side comparison of CA and edta to weigh in on which I like best. We’re on wells in my part of my county, and one of my neighbors has really, really bad water. She said she can’t use handmade soap in her old farmhouse due to the pipes, so she keeps it in the outdoor shower. I bought the edta to make soap for her to try i side, but haven’t remembered to ask her if it’s making a difference
 

atiz

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Awesome! And no funny shrink/warping?
I haven't had soap warp on me. It does lose a bit of weight and gets "thinner" -- but I think there's very little one can do about that (it is just water loss). Don't think sugar would make a difference in that.
 
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This is off topic a bit and I don't want to hijack but I've never seen the site Soapmaking Friend site. Is this a collection of recipes by different people for sharing, etc. And I'm not sure how to find Savonette's recipe. Thanks
 

Savonette

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This is off topic a bit and I don't want to hijack but I've never seen the site Soapmaking Friend site. Is this a collection of recipes by different people for sharing, etc. And I'm not sure how to find Savonette's recipe. Thanks
If your looking at this on a phone find and touch the 3lines in the top left of the screen. Then click “Calculator “. Otherwise just click “Calculator “ above in the brown line. It’s larger and scroll-ier than Soap Calc but offers a NaOH/KOH option, additives, and a Longevity indicator.
 

Beth

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This is off topic a bit and I don't want to hijack but I've never seen the site Soapmaking Friend site. Is this a collection of recipes by different people for sharing, etc. And I'm not sure how to find Savonette's recipe. Thanks
Go to “refine search” and look by author’s name: savonette
 

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