Temperature?

[diynewbie]

Hey Guys!

It’s me again . I’ve been experimenting with cold process soap making off and on for a little over a year now and I’m slowly getting better at it. But I’m wondering just how important is temperature as it relates to the lye and oils. I’ve read where you should soap around 120-130 and even some have said you can soap around 90 or even below that and the temperature between the two should be between 10 degrees. But I’ve also read that….it really doesn’t matter. So what is right? What temp do you guys soap at to the get the perfect bar with a long lasting scent? Also, to those who add kaolin clay to their soap, how do you add it? Do you add it directly to the oils before mixing in the lye or do you mix it in with your fragrance and then add it to the soap batter? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!

-Dee

 

[lsg]

IMO, you may get false trace with ingredients such as lard or tallow if you soap at too low a temperature. I always prepare my lye and liquid mixture first, then I melt my solid fats/butters and add my liquid oils to that mixture. I think many soap makers use the 120*F to 130*F range for both oils and lye mixture. I usually mix clay with a little water before adding it to my oil mixture.

Back to Basics: How Temperature Affects Cold Process Soap - Soap Queen

Today is the next lesson in the Back to Basics Cold Process Series. Today, we are reviewing how temperature affects cold process soaping. If you missed yesterday’s Basic and Simple Cold Process Soap, be sure to check it out! It’s the perfect recipe for the beginner soaper. Tomorrow will feature...

www.soapqueen.com

 

[diynewbie]

IMO, you may get false trace with ingredients such as lard or tallow if you soap at too low a temperature. I always prepare my lye and liquid mixture first, then I melt my solid fats/butters and add my liquid oils to that mixture. I think many soap makers use the 120*F to 130*F range for both oils and lye mixture. I usually mix clay with a little water before adding it to my oil mixture.

Back to Basics: How Temperature Affects Cold Process Soap - Soap Queen

Today is the next lesson in the Back to Basics Cold Process Series. Today, we are reviewing how temperature affects cold process soaping. If you missed yesterday’s Basic and Simple Cold Process Soap, be sure to check it out! It’s the perfect recipe for the beginner soaper. Tomorrow will feature...

www.soapqueen.com

Thanks lsg. I actually have that article from soap queen bookmarked and I’ve read it countless of times lol. That’s how I knew about the 120-130 range but was just curious to hear from other experienced advanced soap makers as I came across another article where they stated temperature is more of a preference and I’ve watched videos on YT where people soap at room temperature. Thanks again!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

To add, I think it's just easier to suggest a fairly mid range temperature with the 10 degree+ or -, so that people have some idea of where to aim for and know it's not critical to hit it exactly. If not, volcano and false trace could be far more common for new soapers.

 

[AliOop]

Temperature really is a preference and is often recipe-dependent. The temps at which you soap, whether room temp or hotter, won’t affect the qualities of the bar - assuming the rest of your process is appropriate for the recipe.

The hotter temps can cause more of the EO or FO to evaporate, and will speed up trace, giving you less working time for swirls, complex designs, and mixing in the scent.

But like @lsg explained, lower temps can also cause false trace or stearic spots. If you know how to avoid those, you can still soap at lower temps and be just fine. But more soda ash is likely unless you CPOP or take other evasive measures.

As for the lye and oils being within 10 degrees of each other, that can be helpful to avoid the false trace that can happen when the lye is much colder than the oils. But many folks use the heat transfer method, where the fresh hot lye solution is used to melt the hard fats, before mixing in the liquid oils. So the 10-degree “rule” isn’t really a rule at all, but merely a helpful guideline in some cases, esp for new soapers.

 

[diynewbie]

To add, I think it's just easier to suggest a fairly mid range temperature with the 10 degree+ or -, so that people have some idea of where to aim for and know it's not critical to hit it exactly. If not, volcano and false trace could be far more common for new soapers.

Thanks! I haven’t had issues with volcanos and/or false trace. I just feel like my fragrances aren’t coming thru strong enough even when using at 6% when allowed. I know some fragrances tend to fade but these are fragrances that were recommended to me (or based on outstanding reviews) to have a strong and lasting scent retention. So I’m wondering if it could be the temperature or maybe the way I add my kaolin clay. I add the clay to my oils prior to adding the lye and I tend to soap around 110.

Temperature really is a preference and is often recipe-dependent. The temps at which you soap, whether room temp or hotter, won’t affect the qualities of the bar - assuming the rest of your process is appropriate for the recipe.

The hotter temps can cause more of the EO or FO to evaporate, and will speed up trace, giving you less working time for swirls, complex designs, and mixing in the scent.

But like @lsg explained, lower temps can also cause false trace or stearic spots. If you know how to avoid those, you can still soap at lower temps and be just fine. But more soda ash is likely unless you CPOP or take other evasive measures.

As for the lye and oils being within 10 degrees of each other, that can be helpful to avoid the false trace that can happen when the lye is much colder than the oils. But many folks use the heat transfer method, where the fresh hot lye solution is used to melt the hard fats, before mixing in the liquid oils. So the 10-degree “rule” isn’t really a rule at all, but merely a helpful guideline in some cases, esp for new soapers.

Thanks AliOop. So what would you say is an appropriate temp to ensure the fragrance doesn’t fade after saponification/curing? And do you use kaolin clay in you soaps?

 

[AliOop]

I wish I could offer you a guideline here, but it really depends on what fragrance you are using, as well as your recipe. Some EOs and FOs are more heat sensitive than others, and some are longer-lasting than others to start with - plus the rest of the ingredients can also affect scent retention.

You really have to test what you have to find out how it works with your ingredients and process. This is where making lots of small batches can really help. Yay, you get to make more soap! Oh, and read all the fragrance reviews, both on the manufacturer’s page and here on SMF. You can find a lot of great info from others who have already tested.

I use kaolin clay occasionally, but not often enough to give much advice about it. Maybe @TheGecko will chime in, or you can watch Kapia Mera on YT - she uses KC fairly often.

 

[diynewbie]

I wish I could offer you a guideline here, but it really depends on what fragrance you are using, as well as your recipe. Some EOs and FOs are more heat sensitive than others, and some are longer-lasting than others to start with - plus the rest of the ingredients can also affect scent retention.

You really have to test what you have to find out how it works with your ingredients and process. This is where making lots of small batches can really help. Yay, you get to make more soap! Oh, and read all the fragrance reviews, both on the manufacturer’s page and here on SMF. You can find a lot of great info from others who have already tested.

I use kaolin clay occasionally, but not often enough to give much advice about it. Maybe @TheGecko will chime in, or you can watch Kapia Mera on YT - she uses KC fairly often.

Understandable! And I’ll go check out some of her videos now. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it!

 

[AliOop]

Understandable! And I’ll go check out some of her videos now. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it!

You are very welcome! I am excited to see what you will make.

 

[Zing]

When I first began, I was obsessed with temperatures. Now I often masterbatch my lye solution and oil mixture so when I have a session, the lye solution is at room temperature; I will have to warm up my oils just a titch to liquify it. When I make fresh lye solution and oil mixture, I wait for them to cool down until the containers are just warm to the touch. I like soaping at cooler temps because it gives me more time to work with designs when the batter is at emulsion or thin trace. When I soap at hotter temps, the batter traces to medium or heavy trace quicker. I always gel. If I'm using lye solution and oils mixture at room temps, I place my mold on a heating pad and bury everything under a pile of towels. The heating pad automatically turns off after 2 hours. During gel, the mold gets quite hot.
I don't have any experience with fragrance oils or clay. I use essential oils.
I was so intimidated when I discovered Kapia Mera's videos! She is a true artist!
Keep us posted and good luck!

 

[TheGecko]

Hey Guys!

It’s me again . I’ve been experimenting with cold process soap making off and on for a little over a year now and I’m slowly getting better at it. But I’m wondering just how important is temperature as it relates to the lye and oils. I’ve read where you should soap around 120-130 and even some have said you can soap around 90 or even below that and the temperature between the two should be between 10 degrees. But I’ve also read that….it really doesn’t matter. So what is right? What temp do you guys soap at to the get the perfect bar with a long lasting scent? Also, to those who add kaolin clay to their soap, how do you add it? Do you add it directly to the oils before mixing in the lye or do you mix it in with your fragrance and then add it to the soap batter? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!

-Dee

I was told that your oils and lye solution HAD to be at 110F +/- 10F. They don't, but it's a good place for those new to CP soap making to start so they don't burn themselves with a hot lye solution and generally makes for positive soap making experience.

As noted by @AliOop, "Temperature really is a preference and is often recipe-dependent." Now I Master Batch (premixing oils/butters and lye solution) with 60% Hard Oils/Butters and around 90F for my Regular recipe works for me (I remelt my oils/butters to about 120F and my Lye Solution is generally around 70F). I soap around 80F for my GMS (goat milk soap), but that is because I once had a batch of GMS overheat...you don't want to do that. So when I make up my GM Lye Solution, it's around 60F. Of course, soaping at that low of a temperature is not without risk of "false trace"...where you think your batter is fully emulsified and it's not, it's just your Hard Oils resolidifying. Since I don't use colorants in my GMS, I usually blend to a medium trace.

My recommendation is to get 4" Square Silicone Mold (20 oz) and experiment with making your recipe at different temps. Of course, once you start adding colorants and scent, your results are going to change, but that is why you test colorants and scent to see how they react.

I just feel like my fragrances aren’t coming thru strong enough even when using at 6% when allowed. I know some fragrances tend to fade but these are fragrances that were recommended to me (or based on outstanding reviews) to have a strong and lasting scent retention. So I’m wondering if it could be the temperature or maybe the way I add my kaolin clay. I add the clay to my oils prior to adding the lye and I tend to soap around 110.

Scent retention. Some folks say that mixing your FO with 1 tea PPO Kaolin Clay helps with it...I honestly can't tell if it's really true or not because I started using it a few months after I started making soap for that and because it's supposed to provide 'slip' (makes the soap glide across the skin) and haven't made it without since then. And it's cheap...not even a dime for a 5lb batch of soap so I continue to use it.

With that said, just because a FO is safe to use in CP soap, doesn't mean that you should use it in CP soap. It may work better in bath bombs or bath salts or lotions or lotion bars or liquid soap. This is another one of the reasons why I buy Trial or 1 oz bottles and make a test batch. Some scents are strong and you can use less. Some scents come on strong, but quickly fade. Some scents change...and not for the better. And some scents are great in the bottle, give you a chemical burn when you unmold it, then go back to smelling good several weeks later.

As for reviews...it's a good place to start, but again...not everyone soaps the same or uses the same recipe. Heat can play a part, so you might want to look at reviews from those who use Hot Process or gel their soaps. But I find it easier just to test new scents.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

What temp do you guys soap at to the get the perfect bar with a long lasting scent?

For batches high in hard oils: 120°-135°F
For batches high in liquid oils: 100°-120°F
For batches known as "heaters" like goat milk, honey: Room temp oils. Lye chilled overnight and added straight from the fridge.

I add the clay to my oils prior to adding the lye

I do the same with all additives, dry and wet, including fragrance

to the get the perfect bar with a long lasting scent?

It begins with the FAs (Fatty Acids) in the recipe. For example, I believe lard takes scent well. I suspect 10% soy wax does that as well but I haven't tested that theory.

The main thing is quality of the FOs and the supplier. When I first started soaping I used MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage). They test all their FOs and provide a fragrance calc for recommended rates for their EOs and FOs. I've used it for FOs from other suppliers too. I just use the recommended amount for a scent of theirs that is close to the one I'm using from another suppler. I'd guestimate that about 1/3 of their FOs are top notch "stickers".

About the same time I discovered that blending EOs with a compatible FO is a good way to "stick" a scent, WSP (Wholesale Supplies Plus) started offering a range of EO/FO blends. Their Bladderwrack and Pink blends are stellar -- both in terms of scent and sticking. I happened to grab them on sale before they discontinued them. They are still offered, but only in bulk purchase. I have several on hand to try "some day" but that day hasn't come around as yet.

Another good bunch of "stickers" are BB's (Brambleberry's) FOs by Cybilla. Back in the day, Cybilla was a top formulator. When she went out of business, BB picked up her line. Only a few fragrances remain.

The rest is a crapshoot. The good, the bad, and the ugly are everywhere you shop. It's best to use the Search feature in the upper right corner of this page for a supplier you're interested in to see what others say about their fragrances.

HTH

 

[AliOop]

I just feel like my fragrances aren’t coming thru strong enough even when using at 6% when allowed. I know some fragrances tend to fade but these are fragrances that were recommended to me (or based on outstanding reviews) to have a strong and lasting scent retention. So I’m wondering if it could be the temperature or maybe the way I add my kaolin clay.

It could also be that you are becoming nose-blind. My soap room is also my home office, so I work in there daily and barely notice the scent. But if I leave for a few days and then return, I can smell the soap room from down the hall!

Also, some fragrances can seem very faint until you actually start using the bar. Then the scent "blooms" again.

In both cases, it can help to have others smell and test the soap for you to confirm whether the fragrance is truly fading or not.

 

[CLMP]

I'm new to soaping and don't know much, but my experience so far with fragrance oils is that some of them smell faint or yucky after Gel phase and I was pretty disappointed but now that my soap has cured for a few weeks I can smell the sent coming back and they smell good again! Especially my eggnog soap stunk after Gell phase it didn't smell anything like out of the bottle but the other day I picked it up and smelt it and it smelt really good again after 4 weeks of curing.

Oh I just thought I'd mention that what I have been doing is after I'm done making my soap and set it to gel, I scrape all the left over soap in to a single bar soap mold and put it out in my cold garage so that it skips gell phase this way I can see which one smells better or which takes or cures better so that I can find out how my fragrance works better. Hopefully this makes sense lol.

 

[KiwiMoose]

My average soaping temperature is about 40 degrees - I think 100 of your degrees. I have gone as low as 35 (95f) and as high as 48 (120f) on occasion but 40 seems to be my sweet spot. I use 20% soy wax, and 15% butters in my usual recipe. If I use cocoa butter I tend to go more towards the mid-high 40s because cocoa butter is naughty otherwise.