Temp for adding lye

[Buckscent]

So many dumb questions . So If you add your lye water to your oils at say 110-120 degrees and they both are within a couple of degrees of each other, you stick blend as usual, add you colorants and FO/EO, will it trace and get very thick much faster than doing the same thing at say mixing at room temp? Reason I asked is that is what I did today, I started at 115 degress and man it got super thick within 2 minutes of blending, blended till emulsion, poured in 3 containers for 4 colors and by the time I went to pour it was waaay thick i could not even pour. This Is the first time I did at these high temps

 

[snappyllama]

Depending on your recipe (some oils speed trace), soaping at 115F should give you plenty of time to work. You don't have to blast away with a stick blender though.. it's better to use the blender to stir and only pulse now and again.

If your recipe has normally behaved, but your FO was new. I'd blame the FO... Spicy, floral and sea-scent FOs are notorious for speeding trace, but any kind of FO can misbehave. Was it a fragrance you'd used before?

 

[Buckscent]

Actually no. It is the first time, come to think of it I also changed recipe a little from 10% rice bran to 5% rice bran and 5% castor. But it was only 2.75 oz each. Not much at all.

 

[Susie]

I would look to the FO for the cause of the problem, also.

Did you re-run the recipe through a lye calculator?

 

[Ruthie]

Another vote for the FO. Some bring it on super-fast. You might go to the website of the company where you bought the FO and see if others reported fast trace.

 

[Buckscent]

I would look to the FO for the cause of the problem, also.

Did you re-run the recipe through a lye calculator?

Yes, of course

 

[Buckscent]

Another vote for the FO. Some bring it on super-fast. You might go to the website of the company where you bought the FO and see if others reported fast trace.

Only problem is I combined 2 differnt ones, guess I have ro research each one.
I will post names up here later

 

[earlene]

Castor oil can also speed trace due to the high content of ricinoleic acid. So it could be that in addition to a new FO. I wouldn't rule out the castor oil. Maybe try the exact same recipe at room temp with the same FO and see what happens. Then try the FO with your standard recipe and temp to see what happens. That might help identify which factor was the cause. Of course it could be a combination of factors: increased Castor oil, increased temp and the FO.

 

[Susie]

It's only 5% castor oil. I seriously doubt the castor had anything to do with it.

 

[earlene]

It's only 5% castor oil. I seriously doubt the castor had anything to do with it.

You could be right of course, but I have had trace speed up simply by increasing a recipe from 3% castor to 5% castor when nothing else changed (but it is hard to say, maybe I stirred more vigorously without realizing). And if I am reading correctly the OP had not used any Castor in that recipe previously. So at 80-90% ricinoleic acid that seems significant to me, especially if the recipe already contained oils already high in ricinoleic, lauric, myristic. palmitic or stearic acids. But perhaps it is mute, not knowing the actual recipe. And I am no expert.

 

[Buckscent]

The 2 FO are
Nature Garden honeysuckle and Camden-Grey Gardenia.
I just made another batch of same recipe and used Camden-Grey Orange FO and had plenty plenty of time, actally for the soap I was making 8 was trying to get it thick and took forever, so the previous being the recipie is out.

 

[dibbles]

Floral FOs are often fast movers. I would say that is the problem.

 

[penelopejane]

The 2 FO are
Nature Garden huneysuckle and Camden-Grey Gardenia.
I just made another batch of same recipe and used Camden-Grey Orange FO and had plenty plenty of time, actally for the soap I was making 8 was trying to get it thick and took forever, so the previous being the recipie is out.

High temps are less forgiving - you will reach trace faster.

You might try adding the FO with the oils before the lye.
This means you can get to trace with the FO in there are it seems to be more forgiving, for me anyway. This also means you can ensure the FOs are really evenly mixed.

If, however, the FO is a known horror-accelerator, it is better to mix it in by hand right at the end then plop it into the mold quick smart.

>>Nature Garden huneysuckle and Camden-Grey Gardenia.<<

Both FO's on the companies websites have reviews that say they accelerate.
The review for NG Honeysuckle on our fragrance review spreadsheet said it accelerated slightly.

 

[Buckscent]

High temps are less forgiving - you will reach trace faster.

You might try adding the FO with the oils before the lye.
This means you can get to trace with the FO in there are it seems to be more forgiving, for me anyway. This also means you can ensure the FOs are really evenly mixed.

If, however, the FO is a known horror-accelerator, it is better to mix it in by hand right at the end then plop it into the mold quick smart.

>>Nature Garden huneysuckle and Camden-Grey Gardenia.<<

Both FO's on the companies websites have reviews that say they accelerate.
The review for NG Honeysuckle on our fragrance review spreadsheet said it accelerated slightly.

Thanks so much, I have to remeber to read about that before I buy/use. Being a newbie there is so much to think about and it just dosent flow yet. But you all are helping me so much......thanks ALL!!!

I think i need to put up a board in my work area, like a check list.
So much mica pp, so much FO/EO pp, these FO accelerate and so on

 

[doriettefarm]

Yep, it would say definitely your FOs and not so much temps after hearing what you used. I've been able to work with honeysuckle but every gardenia FO I've tried either riced or flat out seized on me! Castor can also speed things up . . . I notice a big difference using 10% instead of 5%.

 

[penelopejane]

Yep, it would say definitely your FOs and not so much temps after hearing what you used. I've been able to work with honeysuckle but every gardenia FO I've tried either riced or flat out seized on me! Castor can also speed things up . . . I notice a big difference using 10% instead of 5%.

BB Winter Gardenia doesn't accelerate. It's not a bad scent. I am shocking at describing scents but I liked it because it wasn't too floral. It's not a sickly sweet scent. It has a tiny hint of mint which makes it unisex rather than just for women. I liked it but am now trying Citrus as that's the direction I want my soaps to be arm anyway.

 

[cmzaha]

It's only 5% castor oil. I seriously doubt the castor had anything to do with it.

You could be right of course, but I have had trace speed up simply by increasing a recipe from 3% castor to 5% castor when nothing else changed (but it is hard to say, maybe I stirred more vigorously without realizing). And if I am reading correctly the OP had not used any Castor in that recipe previously. So at 80-90% ricinoleic acid that seems significant to me, especially if the recipe already contained oils already high in ricinoleic, lauric, myristic. palmitic or stearic acids. But perhaps it is mute, not knowing the actual recipe. And I am no expert.

I have to agree with 5% Castor upping trace time. I did some experminiting and found quite a difference in trace time when I tested a batch using 3% and 5% castor. You would be suprised. His could be all three factors, heat, fo's and castor could all contribute. Of course we usually blame fo as the first culprit. I have one naughty accelerating fo that is regular stock, in which I finally ousted the castor added in sugar for bubbles and it definitely gave me more work time.

 

[cmzaha]

Yep, it would say definitely your FOs and not so much temps after hearing what you used. I've been able to work with honeysuckle but every gardenia FO I've tried either riced or flat out seized on me! Castor can also speed things up . . . I notice a big difference using 10% instead of 5%.

I have a lovely Gardenia mix that does not seize or accelerate to badly. I is 50/50 NG's Gardenia and Gardenia from California Candle Company. Neither of those Gardenia's held scent well until I tried mixing them. Keep in mind my customers like strong, not barely there scent. I usually just do a 1 color swirl using a 31% lye concentration. My recipe is not a slow trace recipe, so it could probably be slowed down a bit with slow trace recipe. It smells just like gardenias on a bush.

 

[earlene]

Edited reply because it was off-topic and started a new thread.