Syndet Shampoo Bar Trials

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AliOop

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I also like Humble Bee and Me rhassoul clay bar (using SCS), although I switch out the rhassoul clay for bentonite.
Interesting... bentonite is super drying to my face and hair, but works well in my homemade toothpaste. I'll look back at that Humblebee recipe and see if maybe I can replace some of my SCI with rhassoul clay instead. My hair loves rhassoul - thanks!

.. the errors got used as body wash just to use them up and nothing was wasted.
Great point!
 

violets2217

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I don't have the exact % handy, but I used the SCI at the max, I think it's 55% and that seems to jive with what I remember my recipe ending up at, and then played with the amount of SLSa and CAPB. I used powdered SCI rather than the noodles (I never could get the noodles melted enough to not come off the shampoo bar in bits, and every time my husband dropped it in the shower it would break apart) and I discovered I could go a bit higher on the CAPB using the powder than I could with the noodles. With the noodles it seemed like adding more CAPB made the bar really sticky and took several weeks of curing/drying to get the stickiness to go away. I did have to watch how much SLSa I used because it got to a point where it stripped out my cheap hair color. So it was a bit of playing around to get something that was a good pH (my goal was 5 or less, what I use now is 4.5) and held it's shape nicely. I press mine, so it needed to be workable for that without too much fuss.
Thanks for the reply! I wasn't going to but COULDN'T TAKE IT & I tweaked my recipe a bit today and made a couple bars to try out. I normally use powder and noodle SCI and SLSa... So basically I have those 3 at around 25% each with the rest additives. I ended up heating everything in a double boiler except the FO and Preservative, so they mixed well but took forever to cool down and were a bit sticky when pressed, but pressed so much easier. Hopefully they are not still sticky in a couple days & ready to try out.
 

Quanta

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Oh, I know I need a new organizational system, but staying organized is so much work!.. and I just haven't tackled it in earnest yet.
My system is so easy, even I can do it! And that's saying a lot. If you'd like, I can start a new thread on it so this one doesn't get hijacked. I'll share my spreadsheets and method and you can see if you like it. I'll post a link here when I start that thread, maybe in the next day or two. My formulating spreadsheet I think is ready to share but I need to polish up my ingredient costs spreadsheet a little first.
OK, so, "a day or two" turned into a week or two, but here it is: My spreadsheets for formulating/cost/testing
 

Misschief

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After reading this thread a couple of times, I went to the SCM webstite and purchased Susan's Shampoo Formulating ebook and her Conditioner Formulating ebok. Right now, I'm playing with two of the recipes and have a bunch of ingredients in my Making Cosmetics shopping cart.

The first recipe I tried is one with botanical extracts; I made one 75 gram bar and we've tried it and quite like it. My daughter, son-in-law and the two grands are here and they've all tried it and like it as well. In that one, I used Chamomile and Grapeseed Extracts. The SCI is at 30%; other surfactants used were CAPB and SLsa. I don't have a pH meter (yet) but it looks to be around 5, using the test strips (I know, they're not very accurate but they give me an idea of where the pH is at).

The second recipe I tried is a hydrating shampoo (I have quite dry hair) with added humectants. I made 150 grams and have given my daughter one bar to take home and report on. In this one, I used Propanediol 1,3 (because I just happened to have it) and Hydrolized Rice Protein. We haven't tried it yet but I am really looking forward to trying it. pH on this one looks to be about 6 and may need a bit of adjusting.
 

amd

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This morning I was cleaning out my email box and found a Humble Bee and Me email from a few months ago with an updated shampoo recipe: More Mango Sulfate-Free Shampoo Bar - Humblebee & Me
Out of curiosity (and because I'm in procrastination mode on the things I really should be doing) I decided to try it with a few tweaks.
I swapped out the water soluble dye for mica
The sodium C14-16 with SLSa (which she says you can do) and dropped it 1%
The Mango butter for walnut oil (on hand)
The polyquaternium 7 for honeyquat (on hand)
Added 1% silk amino acids because I'm just a fan of having it in my shampoo bars :)

The mixture was not as nicely moldable as shown in Marie's video or blog, so I wound up adding a bit of water (1 TBSP) to the mixture to get it to a stick together moldable consistency. I suspect either my SCI is finer than hers or swapping in the SLSa made my mixture more dry, so I followed her troubleshooting recommendation to add water. It did not press very prettily, but I think that was because my mixture was still a bit too dry and I could have added more water. The recipe was however more easier to put together than my current recipe, and I quite like the appearance of the puck (minus the cracks which I think I can formulate out with more water). My test bar is 100g, which is what I'm shooting for in my product lineup. Next will be letting it cure for 3 days, testing pH, and then trying it on my hair. I'm a bit nervous at the high SLSa rate, but if I'm not willing to try it why would I expect my customers to? :D
 

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Misschief

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I've been playing around with shampoo bars this past week. I downloaded Swift Crafty Monkey's shampoo bar e-book and have been reading and trying her formulations, playing with them. So far, I've made three different bars, gave one (that I'd made two of) to my daughter, and have tried two of the three. I just made the third one yesterday and haven't tried it yet as I only wash my hair once every 5-6 days, usually.

 

Gaisy59

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I've been playing around with shampoo bars this past week. I downloaded Swift Crafty Monkey's shampoo bar e-book and have been reading and trying her formulations, playing with them. So far, I've made three different bars, gave one (that I'd made two of) to my daughter, and have tried two of the three. I just made the third one yesterday and haven't tried it yet as I only wash my hair once every 5-6 days, usually.

Hi! My first thing is where did you get the square mold?? I hate round shampoo bars but I can’t find a deep enough square one for my 100 gm bar.

And next, i gave my shampoo bar to my sister in law and she took it to the lake where four different hair types used it with all of them liking it. My hair dresser tells me that it isn’t the shampoo so much as the conditioner that makes the difference. I have thick, wavy hair.

hHaving said that, most people believe that different shampoos are for different hair types .

So now that i have muddled the waters i would say the decision is yours 🤭😛
 

Misschief

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Hi! My first thing is where did you get the square mold?? I hate round shampoo bars but I can’t find a deep enough square one for my 100 gm bar.

And next, i gave my shampoo bar to my sister in law and she took it to the lake where four different hair types used it with all of them liking it. My hair dresser tells me that it isn’t the shampoo so much as the conditioner that makes the difference. I have thick, wavy hair.

hHaving said that, most people believe that different shampoos are for different hair types .

So now that i have muddled the waters i would say the decision is yours 🤭😛
Thank you for the input. I got the mold through Amazon. That bar is about 75 gm. Here's the CDN link:

 

Quanta

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I've been playing around with shampoo bars this past week. I downloaded Swift Crafty Monkey's shampoo bar e-book and have been reading and trying her formulations, playing with them. So far, I've made three different bars, gave one (that I'd made two of) to my daughter, and have tried two of the three. I just made the third one yesterday and haven't tried it yet as I only wash my hair once every 5-6 days, usually.

A lot of your ingredients that are meant to nourish the hair work better in conditioners, and just wash out of the hair when used in a shampoo. I think that's the basis of Gaisy's hairdresser's claim that conditioners make more of a difference than shampoo. If you think about it, it makes sense because shampoo is meant to remove stuff from your hair and scalp, and conditioner is meant to leave stuff in. So if you put stuff in shampoo that you want to stay in your hair, it can't stay because the shampoo does its job and washes it all out.

When I first started making shampoo, I was trying to make a 2-in-1 conditioning shampoo. I never could get it to work and the more research I did, the more I realized I really should be making two separate products, especially for my hair type. I then started making a conditioner bar and moved all my vitamins and hydrolyzed proteins from the shampoo to the conditioner, and noticed a huge difference in my hair, and the only difference in the shampoo was the bar was finally hardening properly without all the extras in it. If you have a really healthy scalp, and you don't need a conditioner (I don't recall you mentioning if you do or not), then you probably don't need panthenol and proteins in your hair care products.

I learned this over at the Chemist Corner forum, from people who formulate hair care products for a living and know this stuff inside and out. It was an "Aha!" moment for me.
 

amd

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I second Gaisy, make one formula, at most two. From my hair dresser: there is a reason they have one type of shampoo and conditioner at the wash station - because hair type doesn't matter with a quality product. And most people don't accurately know their hair type anyways.

My plan for my shampoo lineup is one good formula that I can match up with my scrub and lotion lineup, and one formula with a specialty detox type.
 
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Misschief

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@Gaisy59 and @Quanta, I appreciate what you're saying. I also make, and use, solid conditioner bars. It isn't as if I'm a total newb to this. I've been reading a lot of SCM's website and her ebook and the recipe with the extracts, as well as the humectants are her recipes. I'm trying them to see which direction I'd like to take.
 

Quanta

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@Gaisy59 and @Quanta, I appreciate what you're saying. I also make, and use, solid conditioner bars. It isn't as if I'm a total newb to this. I've been reading a lot of SCM's website and her ebook and the recipe with the extracts, as well as the humectants are her recipes. I'm trying them to see which direction I'd like to take.
I didn't mean to imply I think you're new to this. I apologize if I came across that way. Personally, I never even thought about stuff washing out with shampoo until it was pointed out by a professional formulator. Most people don't think about that because the commercial advertising we've had drilled into us our whole lives says that panthenol in shampoo will stick to your hair. The scientists who study this stuff say that it can't stick because shampoo removes things like that.
Regarding Susan, I think that most of the time she's spot on with her formulas, I just don't always agree with her on the efficacy of some of her additives. That comes from what I've read on the Chemist Corner forum from people who know better than I do. That's not to say that she doesn't know what she's doing (most of the time, she does), but when science doesn't back her up, or contradicts her, I'll go with the science of what we know.
 

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Misschief

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I went to look at your mold link and I accidentally change the country. On my Amazon app. I couldn’t figure out where all my orders and wishlist went and it took me forever to figure out how to switch it back! Lol! That’s a cool mold BTW!
It's one I use a lot. I use it mainly for leftover bits of soap batter; they're the perfect guest soap size (IMHO) and my customers love them.
 

The_Phoenix

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Chiming in here because I’ve been experimenting with syndet bars. The variety of ingredients one could use to make a syndet bar is head-spinning.

Anyway, I’ve abandoned the “pourable” technique. It’s messy, fussy, and annoying. By the time the mixture is cool enough to add my preservative, it’s a big mass and I have to wrestle with it to incorporate it and a FO. I much prefer making them in my mixer.
 

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