Syndet Shampoo Bar Recipe?

Discussion in 'Bath and Body Forum' started by JillGat, Apr 25, 2017.

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  1. Apr 25, 2017 #1

    JillGat

    JillGat

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    Can someone post a syndet shampoo bar recipe here? I went to SwiftMonkey's site and cannot seem to follow her directions. She assumes some knowledge that I don't have and then I have to do a lot of searching on her site to find it. Or she'll say something like, "you can use either U^%88755ZZX or increase the amount of CXXZZ@#$332 if you want." (I made up those ingredients, but that's what they look like to me). How would I know what I want? Anyway, I posted this question on another soapmaking forum and got chewed up and spit out for being too "lazy" to do more of my own research.

    I've made conditioner using behentrimonium and cetyl alcohol (from lotioncrafter.com), so I'm not afraid of chemicals.

    So anyway, I would love to see a straight-forward recipe for a syndet shampoo bar or a link to a site where I can find one.

    Thanks!
    Jill
     
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  2. Apr 25, 2017 #2

    cherrycoke216

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    http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=61840

    http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=61716

    http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=61512

    Yup, it IS intimidating! And yes, I'm handling you threads. I'm no guru, too. So have been experimenting. I, too, wish there's a syndet shampoo bar fairy to guide my bumpy road.

    The last thread I'm sharing on post #6 dahlia have post her recipe based on swift crafty monkey's. ( she added her side notes on Susan's formula )

    I started with SLS because it's the only powdered surfactant available in smaller quantity in my country. People have tried SLSA and SCS in other countries. Susan tweak her formula from the Dish forum's contributor. ( sorry I don't go there, so forgot her name. ) it calls two surfactant or more because she wanted a milder shampoo bar. I use SLS and coco betaine ( can't remember the longer name ). And do wear a filter mask or respirator!!! SLS powder is so fine, it easily gets in your lung. It is no joke and is health hazard substance.

    And please anyone is a guru, or a more experienced syndet shampoo bar maker, or someone like me still learning, do stop by and chat with your experience. :bunny:
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
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  3. Apr 25, 2017 #3

    Dahila

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    Swift monkey gives you ready formula for using, Do not complain, Make one CONDITIONING SHAMPOO BAR SUITABLE FOR DRY HAIR

    HEATED PHASE
    30% SCI (with stearic acid)
    22% SLSa or other powdered surfactant Could be Bioterge As90 (very bubbly)
    10% SMC or SMO taurate or other gentle surfactant I use Stephan BSB for this
    15% cocamidopropyl betaine
    3% cetyl alcohol
    3% Incroquat BTMS-50 or cetrimonium bromide
    10% hard butter of choice
    2% hydrolyzed protein

    COOL DOWN PHASE
    2% panthenol
    1% dimethicone
    2% essential oil blend
    0.5% to 1% preservative

    SHAMPOO BAR FOR DRY HAIR
    30% SCI noodles or flakes
    30% SLSa
    25% BSB or baby blend concentrate
    3% cetyl alcohol
    3% emulsifying wax, Polawax, or Incroquat BTMS
    2% very moisturizing butter or coconut oil
    2% conditioning agent–Incroquat BTMS or CR
    1% hydrolyzed proteins – silk is a great choice for dry hair!
    1% panthenol
    1% dimethicone
    2% essential oil blend or fragrance oil
    I do not think it is confusing, at all
    I printed it, and made it one 4 years ago, then I am making a lot of them and of course different now, I am selling it. Very easy to follow, the only thing you need to get surfacants, they are very expensive in Canada, but you get them super cheap in States
    I think Stephan is the best with surfacants, he has a lot of combination so you need just two of them, one powder, one liquid or two, and that it
     
  4. Apr 25, 2017 #4

    randycoxclemson

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    I almost never repeat a soap recipe with one exception ... my shampoo bar. I use nothing but a shampoo bar and spray watered-down (very watered down) apple cider vinegar then comb and let things air dry. I have noticed no hair problems. Then again, I don't have long flowing hair and my hair is dry. Maybe that makes a difference. I even carry my shampoo bar on the road when traveling.
     
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  5. Apr 25, 2017 #5

    DeeAnna

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    Simple shampoo bar (syndet based)

    Heated phase
    Solid fat … 3% … Possibilities: tallow, lard, palm, mango butter, coconut, babassu, etc. Don't go overboard on fats -- this is a shampoo not a conditioner.
    Conditioning emulsifier … 3% … This is a generic version of the emulsifier BTMS. Can use emulsifying wax (e-wax) instead.
    Stearic acid … 3% … Thickener. Could substitute cetyl alcohol. Makes the bar a bit less water soluble so it doesn't dissolve too easily.
    SCI … 28% … Sodium cocoyl isethionate. Surfactant, powder. Mild. Creamy foam.
    SLSA … 33% … Sodium lauryl sulfoacetate. Surfactant, powder. Not quite as mild as SCI. Adds bubbles.
    Cocamidopropyl betaine … 26% … aka CAPB. Surfactant, liquid. Do NOT use more CAPB, even though you might want to.

    Heated phase OR cool-down phase
    Preservative … 0.5% … Preservative is NOT OPTIONAL. I use phenonip and put it in the heated phase. Liquid Germall Plus is fine, but is heat sensitive, so include it in the cool-down phase. See notes below for more.

    Cool-down phase
    Panthenol … 2% … Optional. If you omit this, add this % to the SCI or SLSA.
    Fragrance … 1.5% … Optional. If you omit this, add this % to the SCI or SLSA.

    For a pale to medium color -> add 1 drop of liquid colorant per 100 grams of product. Add to the heated phase. I use ultramarine blue or green chromium oxide in glycerin.

    Put all ingredients for the heated phase (including colorant if using) into a microwave safe container. Microwave in 15-30 second bursts. Stir thoroughly after each heating. Repeat until all ingredients are all melted and there are no variations in the color (if you're using colorant).

    When fully melted and mixed, the product will be a sticky paste. Do NOT add any water, cocamidopropyl betaine, or other water-based ingredients to loosen the product.

    Stir in the cool-down ingredients when the temp is below 120 F (50 C). Immediately glop into small containers. I make about 50 grams per bar -- this is about 1 month of shampoos for me and my DH. Put into the refrigerator to cool and firm up. Unmold and let the product dry for a day or two before use.

    Notes:

    SCI and SLSA are dusty and very irritating to the nose and lungs. When weighing and mixing these products when they're dry, be careful -- work under a vent hood, work outdoors, or wear a respirator.

    SCI comes in a flake, noodle or "prill" form. The first two forms may have stearic acid in the product. The prill (a very fine bead) does not, and this is what I am using and what this recipe is based on. If you get SCI with stearic in it, you may want to adjust the recipe.

    It may be possible to use SCI for all of the SLSA if you want to try only one solid surfactant. I haven't done this, but I would first try only SCI if I thought I wanted to simplify further.

    The temp limit of 120 F (50 C) is critical if using Liquid Germall Plus. If using Phenonip which goes in the heated phase, then the only cool-down ingredients are the fragrance and panthenol. Temperature isn't too critical for these ingredients, so I add them right after I know the mixture is fully melted. That lets me get the paste in the molds as soon as possible when it's warm and easier to handle. The trade-off is there might be a little less fragrance in the finished product, but that's okay with me.

    I want to acknowledge that this recipe has been adapted from one provided by "Cathy" at The Dish. My thanks to Cathy for her generosity!
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  6. Apr 25, 2017 #6

    cherrycoke216

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    DeeAnna and dahlia, if you ever come back to this thread, have you notice any difference between SCI & SLSA combo with commercial brand shampoo bar? ( if you ever tried any commercial syndet shampoo bar or small business syndet shampoo bar )
    < ok, or compare it to other commercial liquid shampoo will do >

    The reason I ask this is I want to know if it is worth it to import a small bag of SCI and SLSA just for trying a new combo? Like import via sea cargo probably will reduce some freight cost.
    Thanks in advance for any input. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  7. Apr 25, 2017 #7

    JillGat

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    Thanks, all! I found some of these ingredients at LotionCrafter.com. Any other recommendations for suppliers (in the US)?

    Here is the kind of thing that trips me up, as a beginner:

    [[30% SCI (with stearic acid)]]

    I had to look up what SCI stood for. And "with stearic acid"... does that mean I add stearic acid, and if so, how much? Or does SCI come in a version with stearic acid in it? And where do I get SCI? I don't see it on the few sites I know of that carry this kind of thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  8. Apr 25, 2017 #8

    dixiedragon

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    I have seen a lot of these at Ingredients to Die For. They seem to specialize in more chemically-complex things (such as shampoo bars) vs more "simple" CP soap. I have thought about emailing them in a link to the Swiftcraftymonkey page on shampoo bars and ask them what to buy and for some more detailed instructions.
     
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  9. Apr 25, 2017 #9

    Dahila

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    mine is not with stearic acid I add I believe 2.5% stearic and 2.5% cetyl alcohol,
    I hope I would not have to go back to commercial shampoos, it is a nightmare to have itchy scalp all the time. When I make my own my skin is good and healthy.
    SCI is very mild and beautiful powder, must have it.
    I switched to Phenonip too , like DeeAnna, it is impossible to mix Germal when it cools down so Phenonip is the one
     
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  10. Apr 25, 2017 #10

    DeeAnna

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    Cherrycoke -- No idea how my recipe compares -- I've never used a syndet shampoo bar before I made my own. I'm not a super particular person about my hair, but I do like it best when it's manageable and soft. Now that I've used this recipe for some months, is my fine, wavy shoulder-length hair has become softer to the touch and feels light in the sense that it's not weighed down with too much stuff. The dry ends of my hair don't feel like rough straw. I can comb my hair fairly easily when wet. It is behaving like it does when using a good quality liquid commercial shampoo. I don't have to use a conditioner every time I shampoo to keep my hair soft and easy to comb (I'm working on a conditioner bar too). In very dry or extra humid weather, a conditioner that controls static or frizz might be helpful -- except for the panthenol, this shampoo recipe doesn't have additives to help with those issues. I'm not saying it works miracles, but for me it works plenty good.

    JillGat -- Yes, some types of SCI have stearic acid in it. My understanding is the SCI with stearic is the stuff in the flake or noodle form. The product I'm using is a "prill" which is a very tiny bead, and it doesn't have stearic acid in it. If you get SCI with stearic then I would probably adjust the recipe to compensate if the stearic is a large % of the product. I get supplies at Lotioncrafter and also SaveOnCitric. As Dixie mentioned, Ingredients to Die For is another reputable option.

    Updated my original post (#20) in response to these questions.
     
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  11. Apr 25, 2017 #11

    JillGat

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    Okay, here is what I came up with for a 500g batch of syndet shampoo. There are a few questions sprinkled in, too, but I think I got most of it!

    Syndet Shampoo, 500g

    (All ingredients found on http://www.saveoncitric.com)


    Heated phase:
    15g Shea Butter (does it have to be a solid fat or would argan oil work?)
    15g Emulsifying Wax (I had BTMS-25 in here before, but changed it)

    15g stearic acid
    140g Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate powder (SCI) (what is “prill form” and do I need that?)
    165g sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (SLSA) (is powder or flakes better?)
    130g Cocamidopropyl betaine (CAPB)

    Cool Down Phase
    2.5g Liquid Germall plus
    10g Panthenol
    7.5g Fragrance
    I might add a bit of Keratin here too... not sure how much

    I just talked to the guy at http://www.saveoncitric.com/ and he is very knowledgeable and helpful. I ordered the stuff and am looking forward to any comments on my recipe listed above. I edited it and made a couple of changes.
    Thanks!
     
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  12. Apr 25, 2017 #12

    WeaversPort

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    At some point I might tackle this. I have both itchy scalp and super fine/straight hair. After going through so many shampoos, I'd been hoping shampoo bars would be a good option but heard many of the stories here about hair damage.

    This might be a good project for future me.
     
  13. Apr 25, 2017 #13

    Dahila

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    the only thing, my syndet shampoo with shea is gross, but cocoa butter or even better Kokum butter; perfect
    500 g is a huge amount of shampoo. when I try to make something new I always go with 100 g except soap
     
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  14. Apr 26, 2017 #14

    DeeAnna

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    Yeah, I agree with Dahlia -- I can't emphasize this enough -- don't make more than 100 grams for a test recipe. For me, that's 2 months of shampoos for 2 people which is like forever if you don't like the stuff. Start small!
     
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  15. Apr 26, 2017 #15

    JillGat

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    Thanks, all. So if I go with a 100g recipe, some of the ingredients will only weigh a gram or two.

    Does anyone know where to get a dome mold that holds about 100g?

    I've never heard of kokum butter... will have to look that up. The problem with making 100g of this is that my scale won't measure fractions of a gram or sometimes even just one gram. How do you get around that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2018
  16. Apr 26, 2017 #16

    Dahila

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    yeah you need the 0.1 g at least.
     
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  17. Apr 26, 2017 #17

    DeeAnna

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    I don't use an official mold -- I use small plastic cups that originally contained fruit. They come in my mother's Meals on Wheels lunches.

    You can also mound the product on a sheet of waxed paper and put it in the fridge to cool. When it is cool enough to be pliable yet not so sticky, you can mold it into patties with your hands. Just like making cookies. That works well too.

    Here is the small scale that works well for tiny batches:
    http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-ibalance-300.html
    The exact same scale looks to be on sale here:
    http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/pinewood-derby-scale.html
    And here's another option for less money:
    http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-mx-500.html
    You can find these scales on Amazon too.
     
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  18. Apr 26, 2017 #18

    JillGat

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    GREAT info. Thanks.

    I did it! It's in the refrigerator now. Not that hard. Are these ingredients that one should not touch with one's bare hands? Some of that stuff is pretty awful to breathe. I could even tell with a mask on. I need to find a small, smooth bowl for the cool-down ingredients. I used a tupperware type thing that had rough sides. Seems like, with such minute measurements, it's important to get all you can into the mix. I added 16 drops of silk amino acids. Is that okay or not recommended?

    I really appreciate all the help here. You are great.

    (by "not that hard" I meant not that difficult)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2018
  19. May 3, 2017 #19

    DeeAnna

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    Don't measure the cool-down ingredients into a separate container -- you're right that this introduces far too much error. That will be true even with a smooth container. Measure these ingredients directly into the main container of "dough". Get disposable pipettes if needed so you can add single drops for accuracy.
     
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  20. May 3, 2017 #20

    Dahila

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    I love silk amino acids but it is expensive, I do add oat protein though. No you did not ruin the shampoo with silk, rather the opposite, I cure it so it looses extra moisture for two three weeks before using. You can use it today if you wish. :)
     

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