Syndet shampoo bar recipe help needed

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I may be wrong but if I remember right @KiwiMoose doesn't use C-Betaine because it is an irritant. If you are making shampoo just for yourself, and are not allergic to it, it would make formulating much easier. It is a gentle surfactant, and not "more chemical" than SLSa or Amphosol. (I'm not quite sure what "chemical" means anyway....)
I like formulating my own things too, but for formulating a good shampoo it is quite essential to have some accurate pH testing device, which I don't at the moment. So I don't try to do it from scratch because in terms of pH it is very difficult if not impossible to calculate where you end up, without actually testing it.

FWIW, as mentioned in another thread, I recently got a commercial syndet shampoo bar and quite like it. It has plenty of lather. They don't use SLS (nor coco betaine as far as I can tell), so it is certainly possible.

LOL I have been following that thread and OMG 26.00 I find a little crazy. But having said that I will never say never cause then I might have to eat my words.
 
New 'poo bars! CA6C0316-67D0-4B5A-94B7-6457E3629045_1_201_a.jpeg
 
Altz Amphosol is Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Most people call it cocobetaine, however it is not right name. Coco betaine is a bit different :)
Oh that's right, I forgot (about Amphosol). Yeah, I do know that cocamidopropyl betaine is not quite the same as coco betaine, but people don't seem to use the full name usually (even my bottle says coco betaine and only in the INCI the full name). SO obviously -- disregard my previous about using coco betaine.
KM, those look quite nice! did you use a colorant for them? That foaming apple surfactant looks promising, let us know how it works!
 

AMAZING!

I may be wrong but if I remember right @KiwiMoose doesn't use C-Betaine because it is an irritant. If you are making shampoo just for yourself, and are not allergic to it, it would make formulating much easier. It is a gentle surfactant, and not "more chemical" than SLSa or Amphosol. (I'm not quite sure what "chemical" means anyway....)
I like formulating my own things too, but for formulating a good shampoo it is quite essential to have some accurate pH testing device, which I don't at the moment. So I don't try to do it from scratch because in terms of pH it is very difficult if not impossible to calculate where you end up, without actually testing it.

FWIW, as mentioned in another thread, I recently got a commercial syndet shampoo bar and quite like it. It has plenty of lather. They don't use SLS (nor coco betaine as far as I can tell), so it is certainly possible.

Hi atiz by more chemically i meant that i had a metal taste in my mouth after using my first bar. Not good and i must have done something really wrong to get that.
 
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Wow! those look amazing. Let me know how you like your foaming apple. I got mine too and am waiting for a trial bar to harden up before I use it. I tried 20% foaming apple and it's soft after 24 hours so I guess I'll have to go back to 10% liquid surfactant and add some slsa. I used part SCI Powder and part sci noodles. The noodles are really a lot less expensive than the powder and I'm trying to bring the cost per bar down a bit.
 
Wow! those look amazing. Let me know how you like your foaming apple. I got mine too and am waiting for a trial bar to harden up before I use it. I tried 20% foaming apple and it's soft after 24 hours so I guess I'll have to go back to 10% liquid surfactant and add some slsa. I used part SCI Powder and part sci noodles. The noodles are really a lot less expensive than the powder and I'm trying to bring the cost per bar down a bit.
I'm surprised at how hard mine are, but bear in mind that the Varisoft and cetyl alcohol I use are very hard, waxy substances ( a total of 18% of these) which set up again after melting. I used the foaming apple at 10%.
My 'noodles' are short and fat - not like those nice long ones I see you all using over there - so I'm cautious about using too many. I add about 1/4 of my SCI as noodles and the rest as powder.
 
I'm surprised at how hard mine are, but bear in mind that the Varisoft and cetyl alcohol I use are very hard, waxy substances ( a total of 18% of these) which set up again after melting. I used the foaming apple at 10%.
My 'noodles' are short and fat - not like those nice long ones I see you all using over there - so I'm cautious about using too many. I add about 1/4 of my SCI as noodles and the rest as powder.
I should get some varisoft. The one I see for sale is varisoft eq 65. Is that what you are using. I’m only using 5% cetyl alcohol and 3% btms and 3% kokum. When I used only sci powder melted down I ended up with a pretty hard bar but only using 10% of a liquid surfactant.
 
@Gaisy59 In your ingredient list you listed SLSA twice. Was the second entry for 3 grams supposed to be sodium lactate? I read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that sodium lactate made shampoo bars soft even though it is a bar hardener for soaps. Just a thought.

40 gms sci
20 gms amphosol
29 gms slsa
3 gms slsa
5 gms cetearyl
1.5 gms silk amino
1 gm panthenol
.5 gms germail plus
 
I should get some varisoft. The one I see for sale is varisoft eq 65. Is that what you are using. I’m only using 5% cetyl alcohol and 3% btms and 3% kokum. When I used only sci powder melted down I ended up with a pretty hard bar but only using 10% of a liquid surfactant.
Yes that's the one. I use it instead of BTMS.
 
@Gaisy59 In your ingredient list you listed SLSA twice. Was the second entry for 3 grams supposed to be sodium lactate? I read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that sodium lactate made shampoo bars soft even though it is a bar hardener for soaps. Just a thought.

My bad...I didn't notice. It should be BTMS-50 and I changed the cetyl alcohol to cetearyl alcohol. No sodium lactate at all. However, that recipe did not do well for me at all. Bad reaction.
 
Wow! those look amazing. Let me know how you like your foaming apple. I got mine too and am waiting for a trial bar to harden up before I use it. I tried 20% foaming apple and it's soft after 24 hours so I guess I'll have to go back to 10% liquid surfactant and add some slsa. I used part SCI Powder and part sci noodles. The noodles are really a lot less expensive than the powder and I'm trying to bring the cost per bar down a bit.
I actually use 24% liquid surfactant in my syndet bars and they do not get mushy, but only 1% silk protein.
 
Sighhhh, having read the forums everyone seems to have liked Susan. So back to square one then. Maybe I will try Humblebee instead, but from what I can see she hasn’t developed anything for dry hair.
I have a basic recipe that makes really hard bars. I have really curly hair too and it works for me. Maybe you can tweak it because the ingredients are a little different. Please note that my SCI and SLSa are both in powder form - so id you’re using noodles you

Phase A (Surfactant phase)
40% SCI
30% SLSa (not SLS)
1% Agar Agar

Phase B (Melting phase)
4% BTMS or other conditioning emulsifier
5% Cetyl Alcohol
4.5% Argan oil

Phase C (co-surfactant phase)
7% Cocamidopropyl Betaine (you could use a different liquid surfactant here but would have to make sure that you adjust the pH if needed)

Phase D (Cool down phase)
4.5% distilled water ( I use rose water)
0.5% Glycerin
1% Panthenol
1% Essential oil or fragrance oil
1% Hydrolyzed Protein of choice ( I use wheat protein)
0.5 % Preservative (Broad spectrum)

Phase E: pH adjusting if needed
* the recipe as it is doesn’t need adjusting because the pH is 5 but always double check, especially if you tweak
It makes a rather sticky dough - so I use cling wrap in my mooncake press so they don’t stick. They end up hard and really great!
 

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