superfatting question

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by Nite Hawk, Dec 22, 2017.

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  1. Dec 22, 2017 #1

    Nite Hawk

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    question--With a 14 cleansing, is 7% super fatting too much?
    Will it be "globby" and slimy? Or will it be "just right?
     
  2. Dec 22, 2017 #2

    The Efficacious Gentleman

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    Part of it will depend on the rest of the recipe. But as many people use 3% with no worries, I don't think that 7% will be much of a difference over 5%
     
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  3. Dec 22, 2017 #3

    isha

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    I also use 7% with 30% Lye concentration.
    My bars turned out to be fine with good moisturising..
     
  4. Dec 22, 2017 #4

    toxikon

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    Agreed, totally depends on the recipe and personal preference.

    I use 3% for most of my recipes. I don't notice the difference between 3% and the standard 5%, and I believe a lower superfat can slightly lower the odds of DOS, so I'll take it.
     
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  5. Dec 22, 2017 #5

    shunt2011

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    Also, the higher the superfat, you may notice less lather. I generally do anywhere between 3-7% depending on the recipe.
     
  6. Dec 22, 2017 #6

    Nite Hawk

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    What I am trying to do is aim for a fairly "moisturizing" type bar, that still cleanses...
    thanks..
     
  7. Dec 22, 2017 #7

    Obsidian

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    All soap cleans, even if the cleansing number is zero. Soap doesn't moisturise, it cleans and nothing more. The cleansing number is really more of a how stripping is the recipe number. If you want a soap that is less drying, try getting the cleansing number down to 10.
     
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  8. Dec 22, 2017 #8

    ngian

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    Hi Nite Hawk.

    The cleansing number of 14, must be due to the 20% of coconut oil or palm kernel oil in your recipe.

    It seems that you raised the recipe's superfat up to 7% because you might be worried about the CO's cleaning power. You must also account the hardness of your water for that along with the saturated FA percentage in your recipe. Here where I live, having a normal skin, we have very hard water and 30% of coconut oil in an average recipe is just fine for me with around 4% real superfat.

    As it concerns your question, we don't know if 20% of coconut and 7% superfat are going to create a slimy soap bar because we don't know the rest of the recipe. If the rest 80% will be only olive oil then maybe that much sodium oleate might create quite a little of a slimy soap in conjuction with 7% superfat. If it is going to be the rest 80% only with shea butter then your soap might be quite better and 20% of coconut will be felt like it is 10% in that recipe.

    Mind though that the purity of NaOH when we buy it is around 99-98% (check your NaOH's CoA file), so you must account a little extra superfat from there too (8-9% true final superfat), unless NaOH is old enough to be even less pure.

    Nikos
     
  9. Dec 23, 2017 #9

    Nite Hawk

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    I am in the process of cutting back the OO and PKO to 10% each..
    Do you think that is still too much OO and PKO ?
     
  10. Dec 23, 2017 #10

    Kamahido

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    If you would post your entire recipe it would remove much of the guess work for us.
     
  11. Dec 23, 2017 #11

    Nite Hawk

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    I am "tweaking" Obsidians recipe--- but not sure my tweaking will work..[/SIZE]
    I like a higher castor oil and coco butter...[/SIZE]
    [/SIZE][/SIZE]
    my old recipe[/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    Castor Oil10.00Cocoa Butter7.00Coconut Oil, 9.00Olive Oil13.00Palm Kernel Oil17.00Palm Oil12.00Sunflower Oil32.00
    [/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    Obsidians recipe--[/SIZE]
    "palm oil 35%
    PKO 10%
    coconut 10%
    cocoa butter 10%
    sunflower 30%
    castor 5%

    [/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    my new recipe numbers[/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    Castor Oil 10.00 %[/SIZE]
    Palm Kernel Oil 11.00 [/SIZE]
    Coconut Oil, 11.00 [/SIZE]
    Palm Oil 28.00 [/SIZE]
    Cocoa Butter 10.00 [/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]Sunflower Oil 30[/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
    Sorry folks, I have encountered a computer glitch an couldn't edit properly in Word, so am left with a messy edit job and am going to have to re-boot everything...
     
  12. Dec 23, 2017 #12

    SunRiseArts

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    This. I also superfat at 3%
     
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  13. Dec 24, 2017 #13

    Nite Hawk

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    was tweaking again... LOL

    Castor Oil 10.00
    Cocoa Butter 11.00
    Coconut Oil, 9.00
    Palm Kernel Oil 9.00
    Palm Oil 30.00
    Sunflower Oil 31.00

    Hardness 39
    Cleansing 12
    conditioning 58
    Bubbly 21
    Creamy 36

    super fating at 7 %

    Any thoughts? do you think there isn't enough lather?
    appreciate your thoughts.
    thanks--
    Have a great Christmas!
     
  14. Jan 5, 2018 #14

    KelseyintheKitchen

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    I have dry skin that is itchy in the winter time. I personally prefer a low cleansing number (around 7 or 8) and a higher superfat (around 8-10). I add 1 tsp. sugar per lb oil to my lye water to compensate for decreased lather of the higher superfat, and add 1 tsp. per lb oil of salt to my lye water to make the bar harder.
     
  15. Jan 5, 2018 #15

    amd

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    Me three. I had a discussion on FB with another soaper who absolutely insisted that 3% was too low and my soap would always be lye heavy because of the SAP range for oils. For the record, I ran my standard recipe through 3 lye calculators and use the lowest lye weight of those 3, so combining that with lye that isn't 100% pure, I feel that my 3% is probably closer to a "true" 5% SF. Also... the only lye heavy soap I've ever had was one that I intentionally made to be lye heavy.
     
  16. Jan 5, 2018 #16

    cmzaha

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    The higher the superfat the more oils that is going down your drains. With your superfat and low cleansing number it will definitely leave some oil on your skin. I find low cleansing numbers will not rinse off well if the superfat is high. As a side note I superfat 1-3% depending on my recipe. You will accomplish better moisturizing if you use a nice light lotion after your bath/shower. Plumbing hate oil and I can guarantee it makes a difference with plumbing. When I fist started soaping I was going with 5-7% superfat and had to have my plumbing cleaned out approx every 3 months. I know go approx 7 months, so it is a considerable difference since I lowered superfat and I like the soap much better. So do my customers.
     
  17. Jan 5, 2018 #17

    DeeAnna

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    Yet another person who uses 3% superfat, and I also make an adjustment for the actual NaOH purity. No complaints yet from my family and friends who use my soap. I think a modest superfat helps the soap to lather better.

    Most recipe calcs assume NaOH is 100% pure, when in real life it's really not. Even if you set the "official" superfat to zero in Soapcalc, Soapee, etc., the "hidden" superfat created by this assumption will ensure your soap is not lye heavy unless you make a measuring mistake.
     
  18. Jan 5, 2018 #18

    Saranac

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    My basic bar has a cleansing value of 13 (20% coconut), and I use a 1% SF (I also test my NaOH for purity). Personally, I don't like a high SF in soap. I tried a bar from another soaper that was highly SFed, and I broke out from it. But you may be different.

    Besides, I don't use much in the way of cologne anymore, and I like using a nicely scented lotion after I shower (and knowing that the fat is staying on my skin and not washing into the septic).
     
  19. Jan 5, 2018 #19

    isha

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    Curious here... I'm trying to get a highly moisturising bar cos of my dry skin...
    I usually sf at 7% 33% lye.. Some bars have a oily feel. I don't mind it but it's not the typical soap..

    After reading the thread I'm thinking of doing at 3%sf with 70% soft oils..

    Will that give me a good moisturising bar with less oilyness
     
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  20. Jan 5, 2018 #20

    MorpheusPA

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    It'll certainly help to use less stripping oils, so minimize use of coconut, palm kernel, and palm kernel flakes, and so on.

    I actually find lard, of all things, to be amazingly skin-friendly, with beef tallow not far behind! Even lower super fat soaps are cleansing, but not overly so, and leave me feeling fresh but not at all dry.

    Adding colloidal oatmeal (Aveeno oatmeal bath is pure colloidal oatmeal) at anything from 1 tsp PPO to 5% of oil weight helps too!

    But even so, during winter, I have to use a lotion on my driest areas (my shoulders, in my case!)
     

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