Super-Premium Soap?

[MissBee]

I break out very easily, so a HP soap super fatted with olive or jojoba would agree with my skin just fine. I don't get fancy face cleanser, though. I get fancy serums and lotions. Seems like a waste to have the expensive ingredients literally go down the drain.

 

[navigator9]

But the idea is that some of the SF oil is left on the skin, right?

Good soap improves skin not by moisturizing it, but by cleansing it gently. And it's generally accepted that superfatting with luxury oils is a waste because lye doesn't discriminate, it takes what it takes. Even if you add your fancy oils at the very end, the lye is still active.So you can use expensive oils to make soap, and I'm sure most of us have tried it, but a good balanced bar of soap will cleanse your skin as gently as one with expensive ingredients. My favorite "extra" to add in soap is plain old oatmeal. I grind it to a fine powder in my Nutribullet.

But this is what being a soapmaker is all about...trying new ingredients and additives. Try the soap. Do you notice a difference? This is why I really love blind tests when developing a new recipe. If testers have no idea what any of the ingredients in the soap may be, then they can't be influenced by any "fancy" stuff. They judge on the performance of the soap alone. Make up several different recipes and give samples to friends and family. Maybe make your basic recipe, but change one ingredient, beer, goat's milk, oatmeal, etc. Ask them what they like about them, what they dislike. Sometimes we're too close to the process to be able to judge impartially. We know the ingredients and we have expectations. Blind testers don't. It can be a real eye opener.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Good soap improves skin not by moisturizing it, but by cleansing it gently. And it's generally accepted that superfatting with luxury oils is a waste because lye doesn't discriminate, it takes what it takes. Even if you add your fancy oils at the very end, the lye is still active.
...

I understand this is the case with CP soap. But I was talking about Hot Processing the soap without the fancy oils then adding them before pour. I had understood that this was the only way to control what the superfat will be, to stop the lye from "taking what it wants." Am I mistaken about that principle?

 

[mymy]

Just to chip in a question regarding the liquid that we use, I meant water, Goat's milk, aloe juice, and so on, does lye 'consume' them too? If it does, isn't it useless to use milk and other fancy liquid?

 

[kchaystack]

Just to chip in a question regarding the liquid that we use, I meant water, Goat's milk, aloe juice, and so on, does lye 'consume' them too? If it does, isn't it useless to use milk and other fancy liquid?

The lye will consume whatever saponifiable fats are in the liquid, react with whatever acids are in the liquid. The sugars and such are what create extra bubbles and such in your soap.

That is why if you use milk, your SF will actually be higher than if you just use water.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

The lye will consume whatever saponifiable fats are in the liquid, react with whatever acids are in the liquid. The sugars and such are what create extra bubbles and such in your soap.

That is why if you use milk, your SF will actually be higher than if you just use water.

When I made the salt bars (which I haven't tried yet) with the highest-fat coconut milk I could find (14% fat per the nutrition label) I did the calculations to find that the coconut fat in the milk would have added almost 4% extra superfat. Since this was a salt bar with a 20% superfat target to start with, I adjusted the calculated SF down to 17% to somewhat make up for the milk's added fat. The real finished result should be close to 20% instead of 25% had I not increased the lye.

However, since cow's milk is only going to be about 4% fat, the effect on superfat would be only about 1% give-or-take.

 

[lenarenee]

Sorry if this is redundant - I haven't read all the way through this.

I have yet to use anything more "exotic" than shea or avocado, but have tossed around the idea of a "luxury" no holds barred soap, even though I know I would not make it a habit. There's something about making a handmade soap with all the best possible ingredients you can - at least once in your life. If nothing else, consider doing it just for the experience.

 

[mymy]

The lye will consume whatever saponifiable fats are in the liquid, react with whatever acids are in the liquid. The sugars and such are what create extra bubbles and such in your soap.

That is why if you use milk, your SF will actually be higher than if you just use water.

Thank you for the explanation. Basically the lye will just react with fats in the milk, and other good benefits will remain. This clears my doubt because I thought lye will kill everything on sight.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Thank you for the explanation. Basically the lye will just react with fats in the milk, and other good benefits will remain. This clears my doubt because I thought lye will kill everything on sight.

I think it probably does "kill" the sugar and proteins as well, at least turns them into something else. But, the things they get turned into are good for soap.

 

[Obsidian]

There's something about making a handmade soap with all the best possible ingredients you can - at least once in your life. If nothing else, consider doing it just for the experience.

Thats a good point and a good idea. I really want to make a soap with rose absolute, rose hip oil and a few other luxury oils. I know in the end, its a waste of money but there isn't anything wrong with wasting money on yourself once in awhile.

 

[mymy]

George, mind to elaborate more? Now I'm curious. I'm thinking to HP the oils and add yoghurt/milk at the end.

 

[kchaystack]

Well I do not know what other 'good benefits' you mean.

Milk will add some fats to the soap. If you do not adjust your super fat / lye discount it will increase that.

The sugars will increase your lather and bubbles. Maybe some lactic acid which will become sodium lactate...

I am not a big believer in soap doing anything other than cleaning. It does not moisturize or nourish as people like to claim.

 

[navigator9]

I understand this is the case with CP soap. But I was talking about Hot Processing the soap without the fancy oils then adding them before pour. I had understood that this was the only way to control what the superfat will be, to stop the lye from "taking what it wants." Am I mistaken about that principle?

Sorry George, being a strictly CP soaper, I always think of things from that perspective. But even when doing HP, I seriously doubt that there's enough superfatted oils left on the skin after rinsing to be beneficial. Superfatted luxury oils are good for label appeal, but I'm afraid not much more than that. IMHO, anyway. But like I said, try for yourself and see. Everyone's skin is different. My basic soap is just olive, palm and coconut, and it sells very well. I think balance is the key.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

George, mind to elaborate more? Now I'm curious. I'm thinking to HP the oils and add yoghurt/milk at the end.

I'm not sure what happens from a soap making standpoint. Speaking from a chemistry standpoint, though, lye is one of the strongest bases available. It's going to denature proteins, break up sugars and such - the same as it does if you get it on your skin. I don't know into what exactly without looking it up, but it's not just going to leave them alone. I do know that the the lactic acid in the yogurt will convert to sodium lactate.

I would submit, though, that the positive effect you're looking for when adding milk/yogurt is happening because of these changes, so there is no reason to go to extraordinary lengths to try to prevent them. IOW, whatever it's doing is what we WANT it to do.

 

[lenarenee]

We tend to assume that lye will destroy and that destruction will be negative. The point of experimenting at least once....is the wonderful possibility that the lye will surprise us with what it leaves behind.

 

[mymy]

kchaystack, as far as i know, goat milk has alpha hydroxy acid(AHA), which is quite good for our skin. I believe it's doing nothing in a soap, as you mentioned earlier, I kinda agree. I doubt people would shower for hours and let the lather to stay. Wash and rinse.

George, I was rooting to get the benefits from milk/yogurt too much though. you're right, I shouldn't worry too much and just go on with it.

 

[Susie]

But the idea is that some of the SF oil is left on the skin, right?

Not unless you HP. And then it is questionable as to which ones. This subject has come up over and over in this forum.

 

[honeysuds]

Instead of expensive oils, why not play with inexpensive food additives? For instance, carrot EO is pricey and better in a leave on product. But fresh organic carrots from the store are about $1 a pound (for baby carrots). A small carton of plain or vanilla yogurt; a cucumber; an egg yolk; a potato; a mashed banana, all less than $1. I've made soaps with all I listed, and then some (peanut butter, tomato sauce, wines, beers, hard ciders, etc) and they all yielded different results. I also felt it was so much more fun to play with the food as an additive than the oils, just to test my boundaries and know how, as well as see how it effects the final product.

As far as scent, I leave the facial soap unscented and use the EO in my facial oil (equal parts jojoba and rice bran) because they work best left on the skin. There are plenty of lovely affordable EO's though, cedarwood, orange, litsea, tea treenetc. If you can handle the floral, Geranium is great for skin, and a lot more affordable than rose or jasmine EO's.

Anyway, sorry this ended up being long, just wanted to give you food for though :wink:

 

[Arimara]

Instead of expensive oils, why not play with inexpensive food additives? For instance, carrot EO is pricey and better in a leave on product. But fresh organic carrots from the store are about $1 a pound (for baby carrots). A small carton of plain or vanilla yogurt; a cucumber; an egg yolk; a potato; a mashed banana, all less than $1. I've made soaps with all I listed, and then some (peanut butter, tomato sauce, wines, beers, hard ciders, etc) and they all yielded different results. I also felt it was so much more fun to play with the food as an additive than the oils, just to test my boundaries and know how, as well as see how it effects the final product.

As far as scent, I leave the facial soap unscented and use the EO in my facial oil (equal parts jojoba and rice bran) because they work best left on the skin. There are plenty of lovely affordable EO's though, cedarwood, orange, litsea, tea treenetc. If you can handle the floral, Geranium is great for skin, and a lot more affordable than rose or jasmine EO's.

Anyway, sorry this ended up being long, just wanted to give you food for though :wink:

Jasmine would be worth it for my lotions though. I love the scent, even if I have to utilize a FO to get it (in a soap). Maybe I should try a good jasmine tea in a lotion.

 

[Carty812]

Clarification

ok so I just want to clarify some things and then see if I maybe able to offer you some help. So as of now you are using the oil method to clean your face? As this method works well for you, you now what to try and incorporate this into a more convenient all in one bar soap? You also want to add essential oils to the final product in hopes that you can achieve some therapeutic results from those as well? Am I understanding your goals correctly?