Quantcast

Super fatting

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

JuneP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
713
Reaction score
290
Location
Eagle Point, Oregon
I've read a lot about super fatting, but have a question. In watching some CP soap making videos on you tube I've seen the person adding one oil, at what looks like light trace; and she said she was super fatting. Doesn't just lowering the lye equate super fatting; or is there another reason to add some oils after light trace? And if there is a reason, do you then have to adjust the lye content since maybe adding that oil after trace, means that there was more lye available to the rest of the fats and oils, which could possible make the soap harsh????

Also if you want to add more coconut oil, (say 22% rather than 20% as some suggest), how much more should you super fat to compensate for the drying?

Still putting off trying one of my own slow tracing recipes till I feel somewhat confident that I will have a nice lathering, conditioning, safe recipe. So much to learn; but eager to do so!

Here's the latest slow tracing recipes I've come up with using Soap Calc. The first one is with palm oil and the second with lard and no palm. Both have Coconut over 20%, so I set super fatting/lye discount a 6 and Water as % of oils weight 38%.

Recipes #1

%

42.73 Olive Oil Pomace
21.21 Coconut Oil 76
24.24 Palm Oil
7.58 Sweet Almond Oil
3.03 Castor OIl
1.21 Canola Oil

37 Hardness
14 Cleansing
60 Conditioning
17 Bubbly
25 Creamy
62 Iodine
145 INS

Fragrance 0.7

Recipe #2

42.73 Olive Oil Pomace
21.00 Coconut Oil 76
25.06 Lard
7.58 Sweet Almond OIl
2.42 Castor Oil
1.21 Canola Oil

35 Hardness
14 Cleansing
61 Conditioning
17 Bubbly
23 Creamy
62 Iodie
145 INS

Fragrance 0.7

Is 35 hardness hard enough? I don't know what number to aim for when designing these recipes. I know where the cleaning and Bubbly would work OK, but I'm a bit in the dark on the hardness and creamy numbers.

I back engineered a couple of slow tracing recipes and some of them had quite low hardness numbers (31 hardness in one), and I can't seem to get the hardness number higher in my recipes, shown here, , when attempting to keep the hard oils in the 45% recommended range for a slow tracing soap. I've kept out Cocoa butter and Shea butter since they are quick tracers. I tried added some sodium lactate, but so little is recommended that it didn't seem to up the hardness level much.

June
 
Last edited:

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
10,073
Reaction score
7,553
Location
Idaho, USA
Some people believe or are misinformed that you can choose which oil will remain as your SF by adding it at trace. This doesn't work as the lye is still very active and will use whatever oil it wants. The only way to add a specific SF oil is to add it after the cook in HP.

My basic bar has a cleansing number of 15 and I SF at 8%. Many of the locals have dry skin so I want something that will cater to them and my family. Probably no reason to change your SF if you increase your coconut by a couple percent. The only way to know what really works for you though is to make test batches. There are a few members her who use 25-35% coconut and only SF 3-5%. If I tried that, my skin would crack.

Your recipes look good to me and the hardness is fine. I've made soap as low as 17 hardness and it plenty hard. If you want your soaps harder, you can remove the almond and canola, replacing them with more lard or palm.
If you want to keep the almond then I would at least remove the canola, maybe add it to the castor. Any thing less then 5% really doesn't add much to the soap. I use castor at 5% and it really helps boost the lather.

Also keep in mind that the hardness number corresponds to how hard it is when unmolding. It doesn't have anything to do with final physical hardness of a bar or how long it will last in the shower. To get a long lasting bar of soap, you want to use more hard oils that contain steric acid, like palm or lard.
 
Last edited:

new12soap

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
1,671
Reaction score
957
Yes, lowering the lye amount is essentially equivalent to superfatting. No, there is no reason to add oils after trace as the lye is still very active. No idea why some soapers still do that. There is a wealth of information online but there is also some bad or not-useful information.

I routinely use 20-25% coconut and other high-cleansing oils and superfat at 5% and my bars are not drying or harsh at all.

Looking at your recipes, what is the canola doing in there? I do not find that it brings anything desirable to the soap, and it is very prone to DOS. I would ditch it, you don't need it, and in such small amounts I doubt you will miss it.

Pomace can speed trace. Some use it just fine, others use regular olive oil (not pomace but not virgin or extra virgin). Costco and Sam's club are both good sources for reasonably priced OO.

Lard is excellent for slowing trace, for making hard bars, and for conditioning. Palm can speed trace, too. I would use the lard over the palm as long as your are not opposed to animal fats. You might also want to up the lard percentage and lower the olive oil.

Try something like:

30 Lard
30 OO
22 Coconut
12 Sweet Almond
6 Castor

or
40 Lard
22 Coconut
20 OO
12 Sweet Almond
6 Castor

HTH
 
Last edited:

JuneP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
713
Reaction score
290
Location
Eagle Point, Oregon
Thanks

Thanks everyone! I will run those suggestion through soap calc. I think I put the Canola in because I read it's a sub for Palm oil, so I hoped it would up the hardening a bit. So I'll run it through Soap Calc, without the canola and upping the castor oil instead.

Didn't know that the Pomace Olive oil was a faster trace than extra virgin. We have a Costo about 15 minutes away, so I'll pick up some there.

I will up the Lard, as suggested and see what I get. I think I kept it that low because adding more lowered the hardness; but now that I know that won't be a problem, I'll tweak these recipes some more.

Happy to heard that the hardness is OK! I was concerned about that! Learning more things every day! Thanks so much for all the help and suggestions!

June
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
10,073
Reaction score
7,553
Location
Idaho, USA
Lard shouldn't have lowered the hardness, maybe you looked at the wrong number.
 

JuneP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
713
Reaction score
290
Location
Eagle Point, Oregon
lard lowering hardness

I think the hardening number lowered when I replaced the palm oil with the lard. I'll double check that on soap calc. Thanks!

June
 

JuneP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
713
Reaction score
290
Location
Eagle Point, Oregon
lard lowering hardness

  1. I put equal amounts of lard and palm oil through soap calc, and the palm oil hardness was 50, and the lard was 42.
I love using soap calc because I find that it's also a learning tool.



June
 

Latest posts

Top