Study finished, time to make soap

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PerthMobility

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Four weeks of learning and a great deal of help from this community and we have set tomorrow to make the first bars of CP soap.

Recipe is:
420g 42% Coconut Oil
380g 38% Olive Oil
200g 20% Canola Oil
25g Fragonia EO
150g NaOH
350mls H2O

41 Hardness
161 INS

Wish us luck. If this goes alright we try Truffle Oil next.
 

Soapmaker145

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What Susie and TEG said. I would cut at least half of the coconut and add some solid oils and butters. You also need to figure out a superfat that works best for you based on the ingredients you have access to. My suggestion is not to use any EO/FO until you have a recipe you know you like.
 

IrishLass

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Depending on your superfat %, your soap may end up to be very drying- albeit wonderfully bubbly (because of the very high coconut oil). And with no solid oils or butters in there, it will not be a very long-lasting soap. Although coconut lends a good amount of hardness, it's hardness comes from lauric acid and myristic acid, which produce very soluble soaps that melt away quite fast. If you want your soap to be more long-lasting, you'll need to also add in some fats that are high in stearic acid and/or palmitic acid to balance that out.

I agree with Soapmaker145 to refrain from using any EO until you know how your formula will turn out (i.e., if you'll end up liking it or hating it). If you end up hating it, you will be thankful that you did not unnecessarily waste any expensive EO in it.


IrishLass :)
 

RobertBarnett

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I have to agree leave the FO/EO out until you have a recipe you like. The fragrances and essential oils can do strange things and with this being your first time out you don't need the headache of it.

Good luck,

Robert
 

cmzaha

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I would save that expensive eo for lotions if it were me. I agree with everyone else cut the coconut and make a plain soap until you like the recipe.
 

SuzieOz

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On the other hand, there are those of us who spend time doing a lot of research first before we even attempt the first batch, and then jump right in with everything. Just sayin' - we're all different. For my first CP soap I couldn't wait and went all out with fragrance, colour and a swirl, and I never regretted it. The soap has a different texture than any others I've made (perhaps because I didn't know at that stage to melt the whole palm pot through first), the colour I chose was a bit "ordinary" and the swirl didn't work. But oh how I love that soap! I've still got most of the bars and I bring one out to use every now and then.

I believe Mac wants to stay away from using palm oil, (is that still right Mac?) Perhaps someone might suggest an alternative to some of the high amount of coconut? I'm not sure myself as I'm still learning about the properties of different oils and butters.

I'm so looking forward to seeing that first soap of yours Mac!! :D
 

PerthMobility

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Thank you for your suggestions. Back to the drawing board. I have dumped the EO. I am now on the hunt for a vegetable shortening. I seems to me that good old Margarine fits that role. Am I on the right track and if so what NaOH SAP, Hardness and INS figures should I be using?
 

topofmurrayhill

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I believe Mac wants to stay away from using palm oil, (is that still right Mac?) Perhaps someone might suggest an alternative to some of the high amount of coconut? I'm not sure myself as I'm still learning about the properties of different oils and butters.
That is a great question.

Oils that are less than clear and liquid at room temperature are that way because of their saturated fat content. There are however different types of saturated fat.

The type of saturated fat in coconut oil or PKO turns into a bubbly, cleansing soap that can also dry or irritate the skin. You want to have it but not too much. Palm oil has the other type of saturated fat that contributes hardness and some creamy lather without such strong detergency. You need both types for a balanced recipe or you'll be stuck making mainly olive oil soaps.

The most direct alternative to palm oil is animal fats. They are in the same category as palm oil despite the very different source. However, some people also prefer to avoid animal fats. So now we've eliminated all the most used soaping oils in this category.

To get more technical for a moment, the category we are talking about with palm oil or lard/tallow is oils with saturated fat composed of a high proportion of palmitic acid and/or stearic acid.

When you eliminate the main palmitic and stearic oils, what do you turn to? The answer is tropical butters (shea butter or cocoa butter, for instance) and hydrogenated vegetable oils. For the latter, some people use vegetable shortening from the supermarket, but the best option is flaked soy shortening. It doesn't have a palm component and doesn't contain as much polyunsaturated oil that can go rancid. Some of it is also sold for candlemaking.
 
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PerthMobility

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Yes I do want to stay away from Palm Oil as far as possible. :( I have just discovered that Crisco is available in our local supermarkets and I do have the properties for that shortening. I am also told that the label boasts "Palm Free". So perhaps that may be my alternative to using an overdose of Coconut?
 

IrishLass

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I'm not sure of what constitutes as margarine in Australia, but if it's anything like the margarine in the US where I live, I would avoid it for use in soap due to it's many additives such emulsifiers, salt, as well as flavor enhancers.. to make it taste like butter.....not to mention that most of it over here is made with soy oil as a base, and soy is notorious for causing DOS (rancidity) in soap depending on how much you use.

I would look for something called Copha. It's supposed to be the same thing as the Crisco vegetable shortening that many soap with here in the US from what I hear. Hopefully, some of our Aussies will chime in and confirm that.

Edited to add- woops, looks like we were all posting at the same time! lol


IrishLass :)
 

topofmurrayhill

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Unfortunately, Copha is coconut oil. It would be subject to the same limitations as any other coconut oil. Since it's hydrogenated, it will have a little more stearic acid than 76 degree coconut oil, but not enough to solve the issue. Maybe it's a little more hydrogenated than 92 degree CO or maybe it's the same thing.
 

topofmurrayhill

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OK how does this look then? I have discovered Crisco which is the vegetable shortening.
As far as I know the only Crisco shortening made these days contains palm oil. To eliminate trans-fat, the product is made from a hard, fully hydrogenated vegetable oil plus an unhydrogenated liquid oil (this works because only partial hydrogenation creates trans-fat).

Even if the fully hydrogenated oil is something other than palm in the Australian product, the problem is the liquid part. They use linoleic oil that you shouldn't be soaping with. Also, the solidity of these product is basically a chemistry trick. They don't contain the amount of saturated fat you want.

We can tell you more if you could obtain the ingredient list and nutritional information, but here's how the USA product compares with palm oil:

Saturated fat - palmitic/stearic that you need
Crisco 29%
Palm 49%

Monounsaturated fat - soft oil that's good for soap
Crisco 21%
Palm 39%

Polyunsaturated fat - soft oil that you want to avoid
Crisco 50%
Palm 10%

That's why it makes soap that goes rancid and turns orange -- and isn't that good to begin with. I'm not trying to complicate your life, but there are reasons that soaping oils are soaping oils. Deciding not to use palm or animal fats is no small decision if you want to make soap.
 

Susie

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Did you read the ingredients on the Crisco? Be sure of what you are using before using it.
 

topofmurrayhill

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I am on a role. How about this one? No more now, I promise, time to get out the virgin stick blender and turn it into an extra virgin stick blender ""joke"" :)
That's a little soft by my reckoning, but you're in the realm of proper soap with these ingredients.

If you're willing to use lard, all doors will open for you. A popular soap around here lately has been 80/20 Lard/Coconut. You don't have to use that much but I would suggest increasing it in this recipe.

Using canola isn't out of the question, but you want to limit the amount in favor of olive oil. That's unless you happen to find high-oleic canola oil. It will have upwards of 70% monounsaturated fat on the nutrition label.
 

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