Storing Master Batches

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

DianaMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
190
Reaction score
82
Location
New York, NY
I made a sort of mini-master batch (700G of water) which I have in two old yogurt containers, one inside the other, covered.
As long as I don't bother it, I assume that lye is stable. Amirite?
Where you do you store this?
 

jcandleattic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
3,782
Reaction score
3,149
Location
Stuck in my head
Depends on what you mean as stable. If it is loosely covered some of the liquid could evaporate making your concentration higher, if not in a secure area, you run the risk of it getting bumped and spilled, potentially causing bodily harm. If loosely covered you could run the risk of getting dust particles inside of it. There are several factors to consider depending on your definition of stable.

I store my masterbatch lye in a tightly sealed liquid detergent bottle so when it's time to use it I can gently shake it, and not worry about spills, evaporation, or anything getting into the bottle.
 

DianaMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
190
Reaction score
82
Location
New York, NY
By stable I mean say, under the sink. Covered with the cover that came with the yogurt container.
 

shunt2011

Staff member
Admin
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
14,971
Reaction score
9,127
Location
Michigan
I would never store it in a yogurt container. It needs something with a secure lid. I personally think that's asking for trouble and could be quite dangerous.
 
Last edited:

jcandleattic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
3,782
Reaction score
3,149
Location
Stuck in my head
By stable I mean say, under the sink. Covered with the cover that came with the yogurt container.
Like Shari said, I would not consider that stable, and asking for a lye spilled disaster. You need a lid that is secure that will not 'pop' off if you squeeze it too hard, or knock it over.
 

penelopejane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5,368
Reaction score
4,075
Location
Sth Coast, NSW, Australia
Does the yoghurt container have a 2 or a 5 in a triangle on the bottom? If not then the lye will eat through it. If it does but it is very thin then the lye will eat through it.

It needs to be stored in a thick, labelled, air tight #2 or #5 container with a secure lid.
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
16,804
Reaction score
10,513
Location
Right here, silly!
I agree with Shari and jcandleattic. I would not consider a yogurt container secure for storing lye solution. Anything less than a tight-fitting screw-top lid is asking for trouble.


IrishLass :)
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,462
Reaction score
17,122
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
What everyone else is saying. The container must be lye resistant plastic and sturdy with a spill resistant cap. Yogurt containers are probably lye resistant plastic, but they are fairly thin and flexible and they definitely do not have a spill resistant closure.

Even ignoring the safety issues of this kind of container, I'm not too sure the lid of a yogurt container is sufficiently air tight for storing NaOH. You must exclude air to prevent the NaOH from degrading from the moisture and carbon dioxide in the air.

A better choice for short-term storage of cool lye solution is a clean plastic milk jug with a screw top cap. But I'd be looking for something more substantial with an even more secure cap. Irish Lass uses a laundry detergent bottle.
 

SoapSap

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
302
Reaction score
99
The thought of using yogurt containers to mix or master batch lye makes me very nervous. It is just too flimsy. There are so many other better containers to use. A lye burn is a serious matter. Better to be safe than sorry.

The only thing I will use a small yogurt container for is to mix colors or small amounts of different soap batters if I am doing a drop swirl. They are handy because I just toss them when finished - no clean up.
 

DianaMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
190
Reaction score
82
Location
New York, NY
D@mn, I just threw out an empty Tide container. But I have a 32 ounce Closys container which is made of very thick plastic with a screw top. Only problem is the opening is narrow, necessitating the sacrifice of a funnel, which I happen to have. (I'm assuming that once I use the funnel for transferring lye I won't be able to use it for anything else.)

I just checked my lye - it's in two yogurt containers, just in case. They are fine. They are in an area that no one will get to, and I am paranoid. But when I get my chemical mask later today I will pour it into the Closys bottle. I can't find the plastic grade on the Closys bottle, but it's very thick.
 

jcandleattic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
3,782
Reaction score
3,149
Location
Stuck in my head
Thick doesn't necessarily mean it's safe for a caustic substance. The lye could still eat at the plastic if it's not made of the right material. It may be fine, but if you use it for your lye, make sure you check it often for degradation.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,462
Reaction score
17,122
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
JC is right -- thick does not equal safe. If you aren't sure what the plastic is, you might want to keep looking.

I happen to know for absolute certain that PET (polyethylene terephthalate) and its cousins are absolute no-no's for lye solution. You can store DRY NaOH in these containers, but not NaOH solution. Even a super heavyweight PET bottle that looks sturdy enough for an elephant to stand on it will crack and crumble within a few days if NaOH solution is stored in it.
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
11,098
Reaction score
9,866
Location
Southern California
I purchase my green dish soap in gallon bottles so I use those which are HDPE and I also use a LDPE carboy jug. The LDPE container has a heat limit of 176º F. I do not have a dedicated funnel for pouring lye, just wash it soap and water. Do you eat bagels, soft pretzels? They are dunked in a lye solution... I am actually going to purchase some 1 gallon jugs that are rated Chemical Resistant HDPE with a temp limit of 180ºF. While I love my thick walled LDPE jug the darn things are $54 each
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
16,804
Reaction score
10,513
Location
Right here, silly!
. Only problem is the opening is narrow, necessitating the sacrifice of a funnel, which I happen to have. (I'm assuming that once I use the funnel for transferring lye I won't be able to use it for anything else.)
Not true, actually. You can use your funnel for whatever else you desire once rinsed off (like Carolyn, I do so all the time). Although lye is pretty dangerous stuff, its danger does not lye in being poisonous, such as hemlock is poisonous for example, but rather in being corrosive due to its very high pH. You can use varying lye solutions to clean things just like you would use soap or other cleansers (but with gloves/goggles on, of course), and you can even use lye in the preparation of different foods. For example, all of the following foods are traditionally prepared using lye: Pretzels, Dutch chocolate, lutefisk, hominy, olives, Asian noodles, etc.... When I make my homemade German-style soft pretzels, for instance, I dip my shaped, but still raw pretzel dough in a lye bath right before baking (the lye bath is what gives pretzels their distinctive 'pretzely' taste).

IrishLass :)
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,462
Reaction score
17,122
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
My rules is utensils and containers used with EOs and FOs don't get used with food. Utensils and containers used with just lye are no problem for food use after a good wash and rinse.
 

DianaMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
190
Reaction score
82
Location
New York, NY
Not true, actually. You can use your funnel for whatever else you desire once rinsed off (like Carolyn, I do so all the time). Although lye is pretty dangerous stuff, its danger does not lye in being poisonous, such as hemlock is poisonous for example, but rather in being corrosive due to its very high pH. You can use varying lye solutions to clean things just like you would use soap or other cleansers (but with gloves/goggles on, of course), and you can even use lye in the preparation of different foods. For example, all of the following foods are traditionally prepared using lye: Pretzels, Dutch chocolate, lutefisk, hominy, olives, Asian noodles, etc.... When I make my homemade German-style soft pretzels, for instance, I dip my shaped, but still raw pretzel dough in a lye bath right before baking (the lye bath is what gives pretzels their distinctive 'pretzely' taste).

IrishLass :)
I was amazed to learn that - but I wouldn't use my Rooto for baking.... I'd either buy the food grade or make Harold McGee's baked baking soda.

In fact, although this sounds ridiculous, I am going to experiment with baked baking soda to make a one bar batch of soap.

https://food52.com/blog/17934-to-supercharge-the-power-of-your-baking-soda-bake-it

My bottle of Closys is HDPE 2, the seal is on the bottom. Now, once it's in the empty Closys bottle, the cap is screwed on - can I store it under my sink?

Thanks everybody for all this info.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,462
Reaction score
17,122
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
"...In fact, although this sounds ridiculous, I am going to experiment with baked baking soda to make a one bar batch of soap...."

By baking your baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, you're simply converting it into washing soda, sodium carbonate. Sodium carbonate can be used to make soap, but the process isn't the same as making soap with sodium hydroxide.
 

earlene

Grandmother & Soaper
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
6,825
Reaction score
6,268
Location
Western Illinois, USA
Yes, your Closys bottle should be fine for lye. I have thought of it myself, but already have my system set. You can easily remove the Closys label as it peels right off. But label it clearly.

I am not sure if storing mb lye under your sink is a safe location in your household. Do you have children or others who would be hurt if they got into the bottle?
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
11,098
Reaction score
9,866
Location
Southern California
No way would I store lye solution under a sink. Mine is stored on a high shelf in my soaping supply room. Also fully maked with a skull and crossbones. My grandkids have been raised to not touch any container with the picture
 
Top