Sticky soap when washing off . Looking for help with recipe .

[Blufuz]

So how would you fix the recipe to make it more moist then dry ?

Honestly, I’m so new to soap making that my strategy is just to try a different recipe

 

[Michael Ritchie]

Your formulation is pretty close to mine. I use closer to 33% olive, a bit less shea but more palm. I don't think sticky but I do think they need to be cured and fairly hard. I don't have any issues with 23% coconut and actually like that much. I also think high olive has a distinct feel and some people love, most don't notice but others dislike. So, a perfect bar is really user dependant.

You haven't discussed how you caluclated the water you used in the recipe. There can be a lot of variation in how much water is used in soap depending on lye calculators and the options you choose. More water will take time for the bar to harden; and I wondered if that could be the stickiness. I think a good starting point for water is a 33% lye concentration. That is, if your lye calculator calls for 50g of lye then the water would be 100g; the math being 50 divided by the total (50+100) for 33%. If you used a larger amount of water the soap might feel different in a few more weeks when more of the water has evaporated.

Also, have you read any of the soap information from one of the members? Soapy Stuff
This has plenty of really good information about water, superfat and plenty of other soap things, including pine tar soap.

I will check it out . I appreciate the the info .

 

[Michael Ritchie]

I will check it out . I appreciate the the info .

What would you suggest for super fat ?

 

[Michael Ritchie]

I will check it out . I appreciate the the info .

What would you suggest for super fat

 

[MelissaG]

The feeling after you get out of the shower is great . Bar soaps give you that sticky feeling when washing off . I’m just want to try and reduce that . I appreciate all the information . I do have one more question .

Super fatting soap . I understand it leave some fats in your soap . But if you will . Please explain 0 % percent to 8 % etc . The thing is I don’t no when to use it . So it confusing me . Like when you’re trying a soap . What would make you think to lower to higher the super fat.

The lower the superfat, the more drying it is. Well, that's the simplest way I can think of to explain it. 0-8% are the amount of unsoponified oils left in the soap. Most people use 5%, I use 8%. My biggest compliment is how much people like my soap because it feels so incredibly moisturizing and creamy.

 

[Michael Ritchie]

The lower the superfat, the more drying it is. Well, that's the simplest way I can think of to explain it. 0-8% are the amount of unsoponified oils left in the soap. Most people use 5%, I use 8%. My biggest compliment is how much people like my soap because it feels so incredibly moisturizing and creamy.

Amazing . I appreciate you giving me your time . Been nothing but help . Thank you

 

[Michael Ritchie]

I will check it out . I appreciate the the info .

How much shea would you recommend ?

 

[lucycat]

One of the confusions is the term superfat and lye discount. They both refer to the same idea and the words get used interchangably. That can add confusion when you are new. The link has great info.

Superfat was a concept that if we keep some oils reserved to add after trace they will be left in the soap not fully saponified. We now know the timing of lye doesn't mean that oils added later will be the ones left not fully saponified since saponification isn't complete at trace. So, older books use the term superfat and talk about reserving some oils to add after trace.

The current concept is lye discount. The difference in superfat is we admit we don't know what oils will be left not fully saponified and we quantify the adjustment to the lye calculation for the whole batch and start with all oils in the pot. That quantification makes it easier to use the same adjustement process for different size batches or different formulations.

Instead of using 100% of the lye needed to saponify the oils we use 92% up to 98%. Lye calculators usually have a default of 5% discount, using 95% of the lye. The bigger the discount the larger amount of oils are left not fully saponified. A small discount (more fully sponified soap) may give you a harder bar, better lather but may not be as easy on the skin. A high discount may feel good on the skin but may not have as much lather, can be softer and can sometimes be hard on the plumbing. Again, personal preference of the soap maker plus differences in their recipe formulation. You can experiment with a 3% discount, a 7% discount or 5% discount and see if you see a difference in your soap and which you prefer.

 

[AliOop]

The current concept is lye discount.

I would have to respectfully disagree. My experience is that lye discount is the older term, and SF is the more commonly used term by soapers today. All of the soap calculators that I've seen use the term "super fat" - and none of them use "lye discount."

 

[Zany_in_CO]

New to the forum and happy to be here.

Ive created lots of soaps. But trying to perfect this one base . ,,, I was hoping to see some recipes that refined with the same oils . And help with tweaking my recipe.

Olive oil pomace 38%
Coconut oil 76 23%
Palm oil 22%
Shea butter 14%
castor oil 3%
Super fat 5%

I use SoapCalc to analyze the Soap Qualities and Fatty Acids in the bar I'm formulating. Using the "Default Settings (5% SF)" for your recipe:

Judging from the values in your recipe, it looks perfectly fine to me. All values are within the recommended range.

Next I look at the Sat:Unsat Ratio, 43: 57 is within the 40: 60 - 50: 50 ratio.
Iodine Value (Indicates hardness) : 57 is very good although 50 is better.
INS Value: 150 is very good. INS Value of 160 is so-called "perfect soap" but there are good soap formulas that fall well below that number. Topic for another time.
Note: 5% SF is fine for most formulas. You can adjust up or down to your preference.
Note: Water as percent of oil weight is okay but 33% Lye Concentration is better.

Next I compared your recipe to the Basic Trinity of Oils starter formula, tweaked to include shea butter and castor oil and 33% lye Concentration

Your Recipe

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS TWEAK
30% Olive Oil Pomace - good
25% Coconut Oil 76° - good
30% Palm Oil - NOTE: Palm Oil Flakes are preferred for ease of use.
10% Shea Butter - Palm and Shea butter serve the same purpose. 40% of either could be use. I'm a big fan of shea butter (or lard) as a sub for palm oil.
5% Castor Oil - That's standard. Any more than that tends to make the bar "sticky".

I can't say this is much better than your recipe, but it might be if you want to try adjusting the %s, using 33% lye concentration and making a small 500 gram batch for testing. Your 5-week cure is reasonable, so that shouldn't be an issue, although "The longer the cure, the better the soap!" I would take lye and oil temps and soap at 120°-135°F (52°-58°C) for the best result.

Bottom Line: I'm stumped. I don't see anything that would cause the reaction you're getting from your testers. Something else must be amiss. How you process? Additives? Ambient temps? ETC. It's a real head-scratcher. Think about it. More info would be helpful.

HAPPY SOAPING!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I can see from your soap calculation Zany that 26% lye concentration might make the bars 'sticky'. There will be a lot of water in them and that will take longer to cure out. Your suggestion to use 33% lye concentration might improve the quality of the bar in less time than the OP has described.

 

[Michael Ritchie]

View attachment 71520


I use SoapCalc to analyze the Soap Qualities and Fatty Acids in the bar I'm formulating. Using the "Default Settings (5% SF)" for your recipe:
View attachment 71523
Judging from the values in your recipe, it looks perfectly fine to me. All values are within the recommended range.

Next I look at the Sat:Unsat Ratio, 43: 57 is within the 40: 60 - 50: 50 ratio.
Iodine Value (Indicates hardness) : 57 is very good although 50 is better.
INS Value: 150 is very good. INS Value of 160 is so-called "perfect soap" but there are good soap formulas that fall well below that number. Topic for another time.
Note: 5% SF is fine for most formulas. You can adjust up or down to your preference.
Note: Water as percent of oil weight is okay but 33% Lye Concentration is better.
View attachment 71524
Next I compared your recipe to the Basic Trinity of Oils starter formula, tweaked to include shea butter and castor oil and 33% lye Concentration

Your Recipe
View attachment 71525

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS TWEAK
30% Olive Oil Pomace - good
25% Coconut Oil 76° - good
30% Palm Oil - NOTE: Palm Oil Flakes are preferred for ease of use.
10% Shea Butter - Palm and Shea butter serve the same purpose. 40% of either could be use. I'm a big fan of shea butter (or lard) as a sub for palm oil.
5% Castor Oil - That's standard. Any more than that tends to make the bar "sticky".

View attachment 71526
I can't say this is much better than your recipe, but it might be if you want to try adjusting the %s, using 33% lye concentration and making a small 500 gram batch for testing. Your 5-week cure is reasonable, so that shouldn't be an issue, although "The longer the cure, the better the soap!" I would take lye and oil temps and soap at 120°-135°F (52°-58°C) for the best result.

Bottom Line: I'm stumped. I don't see anything that would cause the reaction you're getting from your testers. Something else must be amiss. How you process? Additives? Ambient temps? ETC. It's a real head-scratcher. Think about it. More info would be helpful.

HAPPY SOAPING!

Thank you I will check everything out

Im adding Kaolin Clay 1tsp and sea salt 1tsp 1300 g batch

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Your recipe has a fairly high percentage of palmitic versus stearic, which some think makes a bar a bit waxy feeling. I have testers that love that profile, but most seem to prefer a bar that has a better balance between the two. Is the shea unrefined? If so, the unsaponifiable fraction in the shea, which is ignored by the calculators, could be contributing to the sticky feeling. When I had sticky soaps in the past, a long cure (3 months or more) made a big difference in hand feel and overall performance.

 

[Michael Ritchie]

Your recipe has a fairly high percentage of palmitic versus stearic, which some think makes a bar a bit waxy feeling. I have testers that love that profile, but most seem to prefer a bar that has a better balance between the two. Is the shea unrefined? If so, the unsaponifiable fraction in the shea, which is ignored by the calculators, could be contributing to the sticky feeling. When I had sticky soaps in the past, a long cure (3 months or more) made a big difference in hand feel and overall performance.

I used organic shea refined . How do I balance palmitic versus stearic . Is there a better recipe ratio with the same ingredients ?

 

[dibbles]

Palm Oil Flakes are preferred for ease of use.

Zany, I've never seen palm oil flakes - is there such a thing? Although solid at room temperature, palm oil is pretty soft and scoopable. Palm kernel oil is available in flakes, but is more like coconut oil than palm.

 

[Michael Ritchie]

I used organic shea refined . How do I balance palmitic versus stearic . Is there a better recipe ratio with the same ingredients ?

 

[Michael Ritchie]

Thank you I will check everything ou

Thank you I will check everything out

Im adding Kaolin Clay 1tsp and sea salt 1tsp 1300 g batch

 

[Michael Ritchie]

Thank you I will check everything out

View attachment 71520


I use SoapCalc to analyze the Soap Qualities and Fatty Acids in the bar I'm formulating. Using the "Default Settings (5% SF)" for your recipe:
View attachment 71523
Judging from the values in your recipe, it looks perfectly fine to me. All values are within the recommended range.

Next I look at the Sat:Unsat Ratio, 43: 57 is within the 40: 60 - 50: 50 ratio.
Iodine Value (Indicates hardness) : 57 is very good although 50 is better.
INS Value: 150 is very good. INS Value of 160 is so-called "perfect soap" but there are good soap formulas that fall well below that number. Topic for another time.
Note: 5% SF is fine for most formulas. You can adjust up or down to your preference.
Note: Water as percent of oil weight is okay but 33% Lye Concentration is better.
View attachment 71524
Next I compared your recipe to the Basic Trinity of Oils starter formula, tweaked to include shea butter and castor oil and 33% lye Concentration

Your Recipe
View attachment 71525

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS TWEAK
30% Olive Oil Pomace - good
25% Coconut Oil 76° - good
30% Palm Oil - NOTE: Palm Oil Flakes are preferred for ease of use.
10% Shea Butter - Palm and Shea butter serve the same purpose. 40% of either could be use. I'm a big fan of shea butter (or lard) as a sub for palm oil.
5% Castor Oil - That's standard. Any more than that tends to make the bar "sticky".

View attachment 71526
I can't say this is much better than your recipe, but it might be if you want to try adjusting the %s, using 33% lye concentration and making a small 500 gram batch for testing. Your 5-week cure is reasonable, so that shouldn't be an issue, although "The longer the cure, the better the soap!" I would take lye and oil temps and soap at 120°-135°F (52°-58°C) for the best result.

Bottom Line: I'm stumped. I don't see anything that would cause the reaction you're getting from your testers. Something else must be amiss. How you process? Additives? Ambient temps? ETC. It's a real head-scratcher. Think about it. More info would be helpful.

HAPPY SOAPING!

If I wanted to add pine tar to recipe . How do you split the oils to add ?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

How do I balance palmitic versus stearic . Is there a better recipe ratio with the same ingredients ?

You would need to increase the percentage of shea, which has a lot of stearic. For my plant-based, palm-free recipe, I offset the cost of stearic-rich butters by adding soy wax (GW415), which is about 3:1 stearic to palmitic. I haven’t tried palm and soy in the same soap.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany, I've never seen palm oil flakes - is there such a thing? Although solid at room temperature, palm oil is pretty soft and scoopable. Palm kernel oil is available in flakes, but is more like coconut oil than palm.

Oopsie! You're correct! Good catch! I was thinking of PKO flakes from Soapers Choice. My bad. I corrected my mistake.