Sticky polysorbate 80

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icg

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I've had no problem with poly 80 in my bath bombs and using them until recently when I started getting really sticky after each bath. I know that poly 80 makes your skin a bit sticky when touched, but before, I used larger amounts of it and had no problems.I lowered from 1 1/2 tbsp to 4 tsp. When I used 1 1/2, my skin was smooth and slick when I got out, but when I reduced to 4 tsp, I started getting really sticky and my clothes will stick to me for a good 1 hour. The only thing I changed was increasing of the coconut oil from 1/4 tsp to 1 tsp. Wouldn't make sense because wouldn't coconut oil moisturize?

Anyone else experienced this and any possible solutions?

I'll try adding more oils, less color, less or more poly 80 tomorrow and see if anything helps.
 
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DeeAnna

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You've reduced your PS 80 by about 12% by going from 4 1/2 tsp (1 1/2 TBL) to 4 tsp. You've increased the coconut oil 400% by going from 1/4 tsp to 1 tsp.

You've made TWO changes to your recipe, one small and the other large, but you're ignoring the large change and blaming the smaller. So I have to ask -- why have you decided it's specifically the reduced amount of PS80 that's making your skin sticky and not the increased amount of coconut oil?

"...I started getting really sticky and my clothes will stick to me for a good 1 hour. ... Wouldn't make sense because wouldn't coconut oil moisturize?..."

It's easy to figure out -- why not rub some coconut oil directly on your skin, put your clothes on, and see how it feels?
 
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icg

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You've reduced your PS 80 by about 12% by going from 4 1/2 tsp (1 1/2 TBL) to 4 tsp. You've increased the coconut oil 400% by going from 1/4 tsp to 1 tsp.

You've made TWO changes to your recipe, one small and the other large, but you're ignoring the large change and blaming the smaller. So I have to ask -- why have you decided it's specifically the reduced amount of PS80 that's making your skin sticky and not the increased amount of coconut oil?

"...I started getting really sticky and my clothes will stick to me for a good 1 hour. ... Wouldn't make sense because wouldn't coconut oil moisturize?..."

It's easy to figure out -- why not rub some coconut oil directly on your skin, put your clothes on, and see how it feels?
Forgot to mention I did that. Left my skin moisturized but oily, because it's coconut oil. I posted this exactly because of what you said: it doesn't make sense.
 

DeeAnna

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Now that I've slept on this --

My intuition (which is not always right, but it's right often enough that I listen to it) suggests the problem is how the CO is interacting (or not) with the PS80. You substantially increased the CO and while decreasing the PS80. That means there is more fat in proportion to solubilizer in the new recipe compared with the old.

I'm not a bath bomb maker, but I do make emulsifying scrubs. I know the PS80 (or another emulsifier/solubilizer) is used to solubilize the fat component so the fat will rinse off cleanly, leaving only the barest film of fat on the skin. If there's not enough PS80 or other emulsifier in proportion to the fat, then the skin feel can be ... unpleasant.

If the skin feel in the original recipe was decent but I wanted to try more CO, then I might have increased the CO slightly while keeping the PS80 constant and check to see how that combo rinses off and feels on the skin -- and make another slight increase in CO, leaving PS80 constant, and check again.

If you really want to increase the CO as much as you did, then you may also need to increase the PS80 at least somewhat to get a clean rinse and good skin feel. And then balance that with also making a functional bath bomb.
 

shunt2011

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I agree with DeeAnna, you need to increase your PS80 to bind the extra CO you've added. At least give it a try. I generally add the same amount of PS80 as Oils in my BB.
 

Zany_in_CO

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I agree with DeeAnna, you need to increase your PS80 to bind the extra CO you've added. At least give it a try. I generally add the same amount of PS80 as Oils in my BB.
Yeah, I've found that a 1:1 ratio of PS80 to Oil works well for liquid oils. I blend it in a clear beaker, then allow it to rest overnight. If I see an "oil slick" on the top the next morning, I add more PS80, a little at a time, until the oil slick dissolves; leave it overnight again. I'm not sure about hard oils like coconut, but I bet it would work just as well.
 

DeeAnna

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The ratio of PS80 to lipids (fats, essential oils, etc.) depends on the situation. A ratio of 1:1 is a good start and might work well for things like bath bombs -- I don't make 'em so I'd follow Shari's advice about that. In a room air spray or insect repellent spray, however, I use a PS80:fat ratio of 3:1 to 5:1 to fully solubilize the mixture and get a clear, uniform solution.

Just sayin' because it's easy to get the mindset that 1:1 should work ... except when it doesn't.
 
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icg

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Now that I've slept on this --

My intuition (which is not always right, but it's right often enough that I listen to it) suggests the problem is how the CO is interacting (or not) with the PS80. You substantially increased the CO and while decreasing the PS80. That means there is more fat in proportion to solubilizer in the new recipe compared with the old.

I'm not a bath bomb maker, but I do make emulsifying scrubs. I know the PS80 (or another emulsifier/solubilizer) is used to solubilize the fat component so the fat will rinse off cleanly, leaving only the barest film of fat on the skin. If there's not enough PS80 or other emulsifier in proportion to the fat, then the skin feel can be ... unpleasant.

If the skin feel in the original recipe was decent but I wanted to try more CO, then I might have increased the CO slightly while keeping the PS80 constant and check to see how that combo rinses off and feels on the skin -- and make another slight increase in CO, leaving PS80 constant, and check again.

If you really want to increase the CO as much as you did, then you may also need to increase the PS80 at least somewhat to get a clean rinse and good skin feel. And then balance that with also making a functional bath bomb.
Thanks for taking the time to actually think about that. I asked a question before asking about the ratio of poly 80 to oils and everyone said 1:1. So that's why I decreased poly 80 and increased oils, to match 1:1 ratio. It isn't perfect but that's because I add a lot of mica and need a bit more poly 80 for that. The coconut oil and the fragrance oil together is 2 1/2 tsp so the ratio is more like 5:8 liquid to oils, the extra 3 is for the mica. I'll test with poly and coconut oil today because I have time to make more.
 
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