Stearic acid

[SoaPetite]

Hi everyone! i was just wondering what is a good percentage use of stearic acid ppo in cp ? I am being careful not to make my soap too drying and I've read somewhere stearic could cause that effect (not sure if its true). Some sites recommend miniscule amounts like 1/8-1/4 oz ppo OR Brambleberry says .5% only for soaps....I've read also that you can go as far as 4-7% ppo. Any experience/ input will be much appreciated..thanks

 

[judymoody]

I don't use it except in shaving soap. It has a high melt point and it can accelerate your soap mixture, both from the stearic itself and the higher temps you would have to use when soaping.

If you have a well-formulated recipe with a good mix of hard and liquid oils, you shouldn't need it. For example, cocoa butter and palm oil are both naturally high in stearic.

 

[seven]

why would you need stearic if i may ask? is your recipe on the soft side and is trying to achieve a harder soap? i don't use stearic at all, except my recipe is on the really soft side. for example, i was making a facial soap that had no palm or coconut, no hard oils at all. you could post your recipe so we can get a clearer picture. and i've never heard nor experience stearic to be drying. hth

 

[new12soap]

1/4 oz PPO is plenty, but you will still probably get soap on a stick unless you HP it. It is usually easier to just formulate a harder bar, but if you want to use it, melt it separately and add it to your batch at trace, not before. Be prepared to glop it into the mold.

 

[SoaPetite]

Hi guys! thank you for your replies I want to use stearic coz I'm using lots of soft oils.. hmm butters sounds yummy on the skin I might explore on that next time. For now I just wana make something from what I have in my cupboard. My recipe is:

50% olive oil

25% palmolein ( i bought 2.5kgs of it only to discover it was a mixture of palm olein and sunflower oil--Palm olein is a derivative from palm oil, sadly palm oil is separated into two components--palm olein and palm stearin)... so this palm olein is soft oil and palm stearin is the hard oil which i dont have I wont have the hardening benefits of palm oil using palm olein. There is no whole palm oil where I live unless I order oinline but I wana use this palm olein first as I'd hate to waste it

22% coconut
3% stearic acid

The soapcalc says around hardness 40
bubbly 15
cleansing 15
conditioning 57
iodine 59
ins 151

I'm trying to make a decent soap bubbly, conditioning and hard. Sunflower oil (which is mixed with my palm olein) has slightly lower sap value so I have to identify them separately in the lye calc. Thank goodness palm olein is now in the soapcalc.net list of oils and it's sap is known.
Also planning to add sugar to increase bubbles. Any thoughts about my recipe welcome

 

[SoaPetite]

soap on a stick does sound terrifying! esp when my very first batch of soap seized within seconds of adding the fragrance oil but I refuse to quit

 

[new12soap]

Ahhh, now I see. I still think that 3% stearic is way more than you will probably need, but give it a try and see what you think.

Really really really, you should plan to HP it, in a crockpot, in the oven, or over a double boiler on the stove. Or mix it in whatever container you want your soap to be shaped like, cause you ain't gettin' it out!

eta: even without added stearic that bar will harden up with time. do you have access to any other harder oils or butters?

 

[DeeAnna]

If you want to try adding 3% stearic and do a cold process method, try this to buy some time while you get the rest of the batter together:

Get the stearic melted in a separate container, so it is ready to add to the soap, but leave it out of the batter at first. Mix the rest of your ingredients like you would normally do. When the soap batter is at a light trace and everything else is in the batter (fragrance, other additives, etc.), then add the stearic, mix well, and finish up the soap. The stearic will react with the lye almost instantly, so it will definitely thicken the batter, but it's hard to say whether 3% will thicken the batter too much to pour or not.

Just a suggestion!

 

[SoaPetite]

New12Soap

I'd love to try HP! Im making this batch a small one since its my first time to use SA. Ive read HP dont need to cure? Haha yup I'll keep that in mind kinda like microwave mug brownies, I mix it there and there it sets
I live in Wellington New Zealand, not much soap supplies here.. There are a couple of online ones but they are overpriced compared to the really big suppliers overseas. I've used tallow and there is lard available here but thats another thing.. People I asked seem to go ick about animal fats in soap.. I however love them on my soaps. I'll order some butters next time, whats a nice one for conditioning? So nice having "go to " people/experts here that I can ask

 

[SoaPetite]

DeeAnna

Hi thanks ! Thats a great idea.. I was actually thinking of melting it and adding it to my oils then proceed as usual..gee glad I asked!! Im reducing my SA amount to .7% ppo from 3% thanks for giving me a little shake haha coz I am clueless.


Will let u all know how I go

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

You could also use a little bit of Sodium Lactate instead, if the SA is a concern for you.

 

[SoaPetite]

Hi The Efficacious Gentleman! Is sodium lactate the same as hartmann's solution used intravenously..? Coz we use a lot of those at work (nurse) and my boss gives away the expired ones for free (for watering plants). That would be just perfect if I could use those.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It seems to be - but I leave it to someone else to confirm. We all know who I mean...........................

 

[shunt2011]

I too would melt it and add it at a light trace to perhaps give you a bit more time to get it into your mold. I only use Stearic in my shaving soap as well.

 

[DeeAnna]

Bait noted and duly taken, Gent.

The sodium lactate that soapers and lotion makers use appears to be a concentrated solution of 60% sodium lactate in water. Here's an example: https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Sodium-Lactate.html

Whether that's the same as Hartmann's solution, I couldn't say, not having much knowledge about things like that. If Hartmann's is also sodium lactate but much less concentrated, it might be that you could use Hartmann's for all of the water phase. But that's totally a guess.

 

[Lindy]

I just wanted to add that the recipe you shared will be quite hard and you really don't need any SA. I use SA in my shaving soap and those are HP. The minute lye and SA mix it goes into a seize. Now I admit I don't know how 3% would react but I would be concerned about it in CP. Just my 2 cents...

 

[songwind]

I make CP soap w/ 10% shea butter, which works out to around 3% stearic all told. It traces fairly quickly, but doesn't seize. I've even been able to do swirls with it.

 

[Lindy]

Oh I soap with high amounts of Cocoa Butter as well as Shea butter but when you use straight Stearic Acid it is a different ball game entirely than the stearic that is sitting in your butter. The stearic content of my usual recipe is 4.9% with an easy slow set-up.

 

[DeeAnna]

Lindy's right about there being a difference.

Shea and cocoa butter have stearic acid in them, but the stearic is hooked into the fat molecules. Just plain stearic acid is the basic fatty acid that's not hooked up to a fat molecule. In the first case, the lye has to separate the fatty acids from the glycerin THEN react with the fatty acids to make soap. In the second, there's nothing stopping the lye from reacting immediately with the fatty acid.

That's also the reason why older fats that might not be rancid, but nearing the end of their shelf life, can cause a soap recipe to trace unusually fast. Older fats have a higher free-fatty-acid content than fresh fats. Those free fatty acids can react fast with the lye and thicken your batter quicker than you might like.

An analogy is a bag of English walnuts. If the nuts are still in the shell, you can't eat them very fast because you have to crack and shell each one. But if you're given a bag of shelled walnuts, it's really easy and fast to chow down.

 

[SoaPetite]

Thanks for your input EG, Shunt2011, Lindy, Songwind and DeeAnna ( hope I got everyone !! here's what happened in my first ever experiment with SA. So in between the screamings of my two year old and six month old sons.. I managed to make a small batch of orange soap.

I added .7% stearic at trace and then the fragrance oil..it did not seize but turned very smooth custardy, very thick trace.. so I quickly split the mixture into two containers, one with the color and one with TD. Whizzed them all up and spooned into the mould. I guess I mocked around too long coz as I spoon swirl, the mixture which was smooth before pouring has now somehow started to solidify and white specks starts to appear on the white area ( not on the orange bit, could it be that it was in fact TD--that I used too much--(almost 1 tsp for 1/3 pound) and not due to SA?

There was also some clear looking areas in my soap, idk what they are but the soap also had droplets of fragrance oil on top so it might be that I did not mix the fragrance oil properly as I was in such a rush to color the batter so I can pour right away..? I see a lot of ppl add FO with oils and not at trace, is that a better way?


Also I still get soda ash.. with 70% rubbing alcohol sprayed on top.. I get that from a Filipino store as only alcogels are sold here. What else could I try pls?

Lindy its funny I recalculated my recipe without SA and it still gave me the same hardness of 40..lol what am I doing adding SA! My Palm oil is called palm olein--not pure palm but has palm olein and sunflower- idk what their percentages are in the mixture I guess I wanted to be super sure the soap will be hard. When the soap calc gives a number for say hardness.. does it mean hardness after its been cured? does a soft soap (with lots of soft oils) harden in time and make long lasting bars? just curious-I know they may go rancid.

Do butters really make a difference on skin? this recipe seems to be really conditioning just wondered if butters will add a little extra something.

Sorry I have lots of question I'm a sponge for soaping education In the photo you could see the white specks. I really hope I'll get better at this..pls teach me!!