Stearic Acid in CP

[amd]

Last night I was going through some of my supplies and realized that I have over 10lbs of stearic acid. I use it in shaving soap, which I only make once a year. (I must have found a really good sale on both bags to have that much on hand.) My first thought was to add it to my regular CP soaps, so I did some googling and searching on this forum. Generally the consensus on the forum is to not use it in CP, but I did find some recipes that use it at 1-2%. I ran my regular recipe through soapcalc, replacing 1% OO with stearic acid. My overall soap values (hardness, cleansing, etc) didn't change by more than 1 "point", and a slight shift in stearic acid and oleic acid as expected. On paper it doesn't seem to add or detract anything from my soap, but it would help use up the stock (albeit slowly, but at least it would be used).

So questions...
1. I've seen what happens to my shave soap when I add stearic acid, would I expect to see the instant "seize" at 1%? (Background info for shave soap: 50% stearic acid, 40% CO, 5% Castor, and 5% jojoba. I add the lye to CO and castor and bring to trace before adding stearic acid. I add the jojoba with glycerin towards the end of the cook.)

2. Absolutely any reason to NOT use stearic acid in CP?

3. Better ideas for using up my stearic acid are appreciated!

 

[shunt2011]

I haven't tried it in soap other than like you in shaving soap. But, I make an emulsified sugar scrub that I use stearic acid in.

 

[Cellador]

Not sure if you make any other bath & body products, but stearic acid can be used in many things- lotions, scrubs, bars, etc. I think Susan @ SCM even did a feature on using stearic acid.

 

[amd]

Not sure if you make any other bath & body products, but stearic acid can be used in many things- lotions, scrubs, bars, etc. I think Susan @ SCM even did a feature on using stearic acid.

I dabble a bit in lotion making, mostly at someone's request (not for sale), but honestly I'm a bit intimidated when y'all start talking about HLB (?), pH, ionic, cationic (?), etc. I'll take a peak into making scrubs, might be something I can handle. I've tried reading Swift Craft Monkey's blog, but I get a bit cross-eyed and lose interest. (Soap might just be my thing and my only thing.)

 

[dibbles]

I have a friend who uses stearic acid in her CP recipe, at .59%. I used her recipe when I first started making soap, but only a few times. As I recall it doesn't seize at that low amount, but does make things move faster but I'm not sure that is the only factor. Her recipe uses approximately 60% hard oils and 40% soft oils and she soaps around 120.

 

[amd]

Thanks @dibbles for the weigh-in on CP. I looked on a few supplier sites to see what they recommended for stearic acid use and they also recommend .5% so I will probably try that as my starting point if I decide to experiment with it. Lately all of my soap inspirations and day dreams have featured solid colored bars with simple tops, so if it does move a little faster I'll be ok. I just won't pull out any floral FO's for experimenting My recipe is 65% hard oils, but I usually soap room temperature. Might be time to get the thermometer back out!

 

[madison]

I may try it in my CP sometimes out of curiousity and create a recipe with more soft oils as I think using staeric acid with my regular high hard oils recipes maybe a challenge for the first time at least. I have a friend who loves the hardness and the feeling of her CP soap using stearic acid, she soaps really warm using 5% SA., which I think is high. She said when she uses up her homemade CP bars made without stearic acid, they turn softer before they are cpmpletely used up, but after using SA they are very hard to the end. I think her problem is related to a curing issues, I believe all SA gives to the soap is hardness, maybe someone else who knows better will correct me if I am wrong. I use it in one of my body butter recipes that I like, I am experimenting to add it in my other products as it helps reparing skin damage, increases the skin flexibility, and improves moister retention according to Susan Barclay Nichols of swiftcraftymonckey.
Please let us know how your experiment turns, wish you the best.

 

[SoapAddict415]

I've used it in my soaps. If soapcalc says that my recipe will create a bar that's softer than I'd like it to be then I'll add up to 2% to my recipe to increase it's hardness.

 

[amd]

so I know y'all will be shocked but I actually did an experiment! I made 2 loaves, one at .5% and the other 1%. I didn't plan very well because I did use a floral that accelerates for the 1% loaf. Regardless it went fine, although faster than the .5%. Definitely not something I will be able to swirl, but very useable for simpler soaps. It gelled, which my soaps haven't done since we moved to the new house (my space is in the basement and it is cool year round). Cutting time was shortened. I will have to compare lather after the cure. It might be something I can use for my honey soaps because they are so much softer than my regular soaps. All in all a fun thing to try.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you're adding quite a bit of honey without considering the water it also adds to the soap, that might be the reason why your honey soap is softer than you'd like. Just a guess, but that's what popped up in my mind when I read your last post.

 

[Herbalcreations]

Last night I was going through some of my supplies and realized that I have over 10lbs of stearic acid. I use it in shaving soap, which I only make once a year. (I must have found a really good sale on both bags to have that much on hand.) My first thought was to add it to my regular CP soaps, so I did some googling and searching on this forum. Generally the consensus on the forum is to not use it in CP, but I did find some recipes that use it at 1-2%. I ran my regular recipe through soapcalc, replacing 1% OO with stearic acid. My overall soap values (hardness, cleansing, etc) didn't change by more than 1 "point", and a slight shift in stearic acid and oleic acid as expected. On paper it doesn't seem to add or detract anything from my soap, but it would help use up the stock (albeit slowly, but at least it would be used).

So questions...
1. I've seen what happens to my shave soap when I add stearic acid, would I expect to see the instant "seize" at 1%? (Background info for shave soap: 50% stearic acid, 40% CO, 5% Castor, and 5% jojoba. I add the lye to CO and castor and bring to trace before adding stearic acid. I add the jojoba with glycerin towards the end of the cook.)

2. Absolutely any reason to NOT use stearic acid in CP?

3. Better ideas for using up my stearic acid are appreciated!

expect a seize if adding cocoa butter to your recipe. Otherwise stearic acid is great in CP soap. Yes it does make a huge different, but do not go above 4 percent.

 

[amd]

If you're adding quite a bit of honey without considering the water it also adds to the soap, that might be the reason why your honey soap is softer than you'd like. Just a guess, but that's what popped up in my mind when I read your last post.

I do subtract my honey amount from the water amount, but then add a bit more water to the honey to help loosen it (in addition to warming the honey as well) so you're probably right to some degree about the total liquid (total water + honey) contributing to it. I also use a bit more honey than the usual recommendations as well, which is the other contributing factor. I did a number of experiments with different amounts of honey to find the qualities that I liked the best. Bubbles and skin feel were what I decided were the most important to me, bar hardness isn't as much a factor for me, but for selling I do like a harder bar so I have been brainstorming ideas to try without using beeswax (I haven't used it in soap, but some reading leads me to believe it can be a bit "fiddly" to get it to incorporate into the soap well). After lather test on these and depending on what I think of it, a honey soap will probably be the next experiment with adding stearic acid.

expect a seize if adding cocoa butter to your recipe. Otherwise stearic acid is great in CP soap. Yes it does make a huge different, but do not go above 4 percent.

How do you mean "expect a seize"? In my standard recipe I use 5% cocoa butter, so that is also what I used in my experiment. I didn't experience what I would call seizing by any means. The recipe came to trace faster in .5% and even more-so in the 1% but I suspect the FO caused the increase more than the stearic acid caused it. The soap was in no way "seized", I was able to pour both recipes very nicely into the mold. A "seized" batter I would not have been able to pour.

I will probably do a second test of the 1% stearic acid formula with a better behaving FO just for the sake of seeing clearly the difference between the two, but I don't feel that the trace speed was impacted all that much just because I am familiar enough with the speedy FO that I used and it behaved pretty much the same in the stearic acid as it does in my regular recipe.

 

[DeeAnna]

I would also not expect cocoa butter to cause seizing. Stearic acid -- yes, definitely a risk. Cocoa butter -- not really.

 

[madison]

I use 10% cocoa butter in certain recipes, it does not seize on me.

 

[Herbalcreations]

I do subtract my honey amount from the water amount, but then add a bit more water to the honey to help loosen it (in addition to warming the honey as well) so you're probably right to some degree about the total liquid (total water + honey) contributing to it. I also use a bit more honey than the usual recommendations as well, which is the other contributing factor. I did a number of experiments with different amounts of honey to find the qualities that I liked the best. Bubbles and skin feel were what I decided were the most important to me, bar hardness isn't as much a factor for me, but for selling I do like a harder bar so I have been brainstorming ideas to try without using beeswax (I haven't used it in soap, but some reading leads me to believe it can be a bit "fiddly" to get it to incorporate into the soap well). After lather test on these and depending on what I think of it, a honey soap will probably be the next experiment with adding stearic acid.


How do you mean "expect a seize"? In my standard recipe I use 5% cocoa butter, so that is also what I used in my experiment. I didn't experience what I would call seizing by any means. The recipe came to trace faster in .5% and even more-so in the 1% but I suspect the FO caused the increase more than the stearic acid caused it. The soap was in no way "seized", I was able to pour both recipes very nicely into the mold. A "seized" batter I would not have been able to pour.

I will probably do a second test of the 1% stearic acid formula with a better behaving FO just for the sake of seeing clearly the difference between the two, but I don't feel that the trace speed was impacted all that much just because I am familiar enough with the speedy FO that I used and it behaved pretty much the same in the stearic acid as it does in my regular recipe.

you will see the difference once the soap is fully cured. Happy soaping!

 

[SaltedFig]

I do subtract my honey amount from the water amount, but then add a bit more water to the honey to help loosen it (in addition to warming the honey as well) so you're probably right to some degree about the total liquid (total water + honey) contributing to it. I also use a bit more honey than the usual recommendations as well, which is the other contributing factor. I did a number of experiments with different amounts of honey to find the qualities that I liked the best. Bubbles and skin feel were what I decided were the most important to me, bar hardness isn't as much a factor for me, but for selling I do like a harder bar so I have been brainstorming ideas to try without using beeswax (I haven't used it in soap, but some reading leads me to believe it can be a bit "fiddly" to get it to incorporate into the soap well). After lather test on these and depending on what I think of it, a honey soap will probably be the next experiment with adding stearic acid.

Beeswax isn't that bad for adding to CP soap . If the beeswax is taken to perfect clarity (not just melted) and then added to warmed oils, it will stick-blend in without causing trouble (and the total batch temperature doesn't need to be that high). Warm stick blender, warm oils, warm lye.
Like making fudge, you are looking to avoid triggering crystalization, so no cold tools.

The sugars in honey act as a solvent and affect the formation of soap crystals (as sugars do), so a lot of honey makes soap soft (I also like a lot of honey)
It would make sense that using stearic acid would harden honey soap, because your reducing the solvent load (by reducing the amount of glycerin).

Neat idea amd!

 

[DianaMoon]

Beeswax isn't that bad for adding to CP soap . If the beeswax is taken to perfect clarity (not just melted) and then added to warmed oils, it will stick-blend in without causing trouble (and the total batch temperature doesn't need to be that high). Warm stick blender, warm oils, warm lye.
Like making fudge, you are looking to avoid triggering crystalization, so no cold tools.

Why not melt the beeswax & add the cold oils, which will warm them up?

 

[SaltedFig]

Why not melt the beeswax & add the cold oils, which will warm them up?

Because (usually) in a soap recipe there is a lot more oil than there is beeswax.
Adding cold liquid on top of a small amount of hot beeswax will cause the beeswax to cool down and harden.

(And, somewhat volume/temperature dependent, there is also a possibility of a cold liquid causing the molten beeswax to spit)

 

[amd]

Why not melt the beeswax & add the cold oils, which will warm them up?

Yes, I second what Figgy said, but also want to add that it depends on a soapmaker's process too. If you're a soap maker who follows temperatures and heats up the oil to (for example) 100°F, it's probably ok to add melted beeswax that way.

My process for normal soap is to have oils masterbatched at room temp and use fresh lye solution. For my stearic acid experiment, I heated the oils just to the liquid point, melting the stearic acid separately and adding it. I probably should have stopped to check the temp for the sake of being a good experimenter... but well... I didn't. I could very comfortably stick a finger in it and keep it there. No where near the temperature I would think it would need to be for beeswax to incorporate well. That said, I still have not done soap with honey in it to see how it compares. I'm waiting for my test subjects to come off the cure rack so I can check out the lather and feel of the soap.

 

[penelopejane]

amd
What do you think of your stearic acid soaps now?
Would you continue using it?
And at what percent?